Chain lubricants

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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aeroisnteverything
Posts: 607
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

joshatsilca wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:33 pm
To get the results both in terms of efficiency and wear for the Ceramicspeed you really NEED the 2 drops per roller and 24 hour cure time, we learned this from the ZFC testing and also learned that if you do 2 drops per roller and 24 hour cure with SILCA SuperSecret, you get roughly identical results to the UFO 2.0 as the SuperSecret in the ZFC test was done with 1 drop and 8 hour cure (and SuperSecret is $20 cheaper than UFO).
Hmmm.. I wonder how the chains perform where you do 1 drop per roller per application but this is done to a chain that goes through immersive wax cycles every 1000-1500km.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

joshatsilca wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:44 pm

Thanks Tobin,
Each generation has seen an improvement in surface tension, and with Batch 3 we feel that the surface tension is pretty much perfectly balanced (ZFC tested Batch 2), we also found that we could use less carrier if our wax particle size was distribution was much narrower, so each generation of the product has been more refined in particle size as well as higher percentage wax relative to carrier. The batch number is on each bottle so you should be able to easily know which one you are receiving.

Hmm interesting. I just checked my bottle that was purchased in Nov/2020 and it's "Lot 3." Is this still the current generation? The inside of the bottle also looks like an Oreo milkshake with, I assume, WS2 filling imperfections/rough spots in the plastic.

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Cubist
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:04 pm

by Cubist

As a long time MSW user I am in need of some advise for winter riding.

What is a good option with varying conditions? Is it wise to top up the chain after a wet ride with a drip lube like smoove?, or is it best to put boiling water on the chain and then re-wax?

The wax seems to stop working after 1,5 hour of riding in wet weather.

Anybody found the best method for winter riding?

Dat
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:57 am

by Dat

I hate Muc off wet lube with vengeance. We sell it in he shop and people clog up their drivetrain with it so much even our parts cleaner struggles.

I've been a long time squirt user but it doesn't hold up in the wet. Tried their Ludicrous AF lube the last month. Lasts ages and it makes my (fixed) drivetrain quite.

Mocs123
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 9:19 pm

by Mocs123

Is the Ludicrous AF a wax based lube?
2015 Wilier Zero.7 Rim Brake
2017 Trek Domane SLR-7 Disc Brake

joshatsilca
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:52 pm

by joshatsilca

Cubist wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:20 pm
As a long time MSW user I am in need of some advise for winter riding.

What is a good option with varying conditions? Is it wise to top up the chain after a wet ride with a drip lube like smoove?, or is it best to put boiling water on the chain and then re-wax?

The wax seems to stop working after 1,5 hour of riding in wet weather.

Anybody found the best method for winter riding?
Zero Friction says that you need to strip and re-wax after every wet ride.. if you're using MSW now, the ZFC data also show that Silca Hot Melt is ~2-5x better at reducing wear in the wet than MSW but in real life terms, you are still going to need to re-wax after a wet ride. For dry riding, and even dry/dusty riding, using SuperSecret over top of the wax is nearly equivalent to re-waxing with hot wax.

For Mocs123, Ludicrous AF is an oil based lube

For Dat, if you think Ludricrous is good, Synergetic is significantly lower wearing and longer lasting per application as nearly identical friction values and at half the price.
Screen Shot 2021-12-02 at 12.11.52 PM.png
Owner of SILCA
Check out my Tech Blog: https://blog.silca.cc
Stories of the Tech behind the Tech: https://marginalgainspodcast.cc

Cubist
Posts: 249
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:04 pm

by Cubist

joshatsilca wrote:
Cubist wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:20 pm
As a long time MSW user I am in need of some advise for winter riding.

What is a good option with varying conditions? Is it wise to top up the chain after a wet ride with a drip lube like smoove?, or is it best to put boiling water on the chain and then re-wax?

The wax seems to stop working after 1,5 hour of riding in wet weather.

Anybody found the best method for winter riding?
Zero Friction says that you need to strip and re-wax after every wet ride.. if you're using MSW now, the ZFC data also show that Silca Hot Melt is ~2-5x better at reducing wear in the wet than MSW but in real life terms, you are still going to need to re-wax after a wet ride. For dry riding, and even dry/dusty riding, using SuperSecret over top of the wax is nearly equivalent to re-waxing with hot wax.

For Mocs123, Ludicrous AF is an oil based lube

For Dat, if you think Ludricrous is good, Synergetic is significantly lower wearing and longer lasting per application as nearly identical friction values and at half the price.
Screen Shot 2021-12-02 at 12.11.52 PM.png
Thank you very much. I just want it to stop raining in the Netherlands ;).

Will try Silca when I am out off MSW and see if I can notice any differences.

DieselCondor
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:14 pm

by DieselCondor

This is my first UK winter using silca super secret exclusively. I wish I had converted sooner!
I'd used it in the summertime on one bike and was satisfied but now it's on all our bikes.
So much easier to keep the bikes clean.
The secret is to really deep clean the chain prior to prep.

DaveS
Posts: 3556
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm

by DaveS

This thread just keeps going. I've made some changes to my home made liquid wax lube to make it last longer. I've found that paraffin will mix completely with gear lube - up to 40% by weight. Gear lube has extreme pressure additives to reduce wear.

I melted the wax and oil, then let it cool back to a solid. There was no free-oil, only a little softer wax. This could be used as a hot dip wax, or dissolved in 3-4 parts naphtha as a liquid lube. I use it as a liquid lube, but the applicator bottle must be warmed in hot tap water to raise the temperature to 80-90F. If the chain is too cold, it will also need some heating with a heat gun. I reapply weekly or about every 150 miles, as a matter of convenience, not due to a noisy chain. If the chain gets noisy, you waited too long.

My drivetrains remain very clean using this lube. I never ride in the wet, so I can't say how well it works in wet conditions. The last time it rained in Northern Colorado was July. No snow yet this year either.
Last edited by DaveS on Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

joshatsilca
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:52 pm

by joshatsilca

DieselCondor wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:36 pm
This is my first UK winter using silca super secret exclusively. I wish I had converted sooner!
I'd used it in the summertime on one bike and was satisfied but now it's on all our bikes.
So much easier to keep the bikes clean.
The secret is to really deep clean the chain prior to prep.
Thanks for the feedback, glad to hear it's working so well for you.

For Tobin, This is the surface tension we are seeing in Gen3 SuperSecret, I'd be interested to see what you are seeing in your bottle. My one thought is that your lube could have frozen at some point in transit to you which definitely causes it to separate out in a way that the surface tension is dramatically reduced and the lube becomes very thin and runny.
IMG_1525.jpg
Owner of SILCA
Check out my Tech Blog: https://blog.silca.cc
Stories of the Tech behind the Tech: https://marginalgainspodcast.cc

kervelo
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:58 am
Location: Finland

by kervelo

elfuinha wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:09 pm

In my testing - Tungsten all-weather is very good but last very little, compered to Dynamic Speedpotion that i'm using now.
Also the chain is a lot quieter with the Dynamic and last 2x on chain VS the Tungsten all-weather.
Also used Dynamic Slick Wax that is 1/3 of the price also very good. on the Chain it's equal to Tungsten all-weather, at 1/2 of the price.
I have been thinking of trying the Speedpotion, so that is good news. The Speedpotion has as high brugger value as the best traditional/non-vax chain lubes.

elfuinha
Posts: 923
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:18 pm

by elfuinha

kervelo wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:16 pm
elfuinha wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:09 pm

In my testing - Tungsten all-weather is very good but last very little, compered to Dynamic Speedpotion that i'm using now.
Also the chain is a lot quieter with the Dynamic and last 2x on chain VS the Tungsten all-weather.
Also used Dynamic Slick Wax that is 1/3 of the price also very good. on the Chain it's equal to Tungsten all-weather, at 1/2 of the price.
I have been thinking of trying the Speedpotion, so that is good news. The Speedpotion has as high brugger value as the best traditional/non-vax chain lubes.
Did my 1st Wet Ride yesterday with Dynamic Slick Wax, it was a 60km wet ride and the Wax didn't washout by the water (that was my 1st concern), needed to full clean the bike and them pass a Dry microfiber cloth to remove it from the chain, jockeys and Chainrings.

Will have to lube the chain again, this time will be with Speedpotion, just to test the noise of the drive train. i think Speedpotion is quieter that Slick Wax.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 9044
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

joshatsilca wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:13 pm

For Tobin, This is the surface tension we are seeing in Gen3 SuperSecret, I'd be interested to see what you are seeing in your bottle. My one thought is that your lube could have frozen at some point in transit to you which definitely causes it to separate out in a way that the surface tension is dramatically reduced and the lube becomes very thin and runny.IMG_1525.jpg

Maybe surface tension isn't the right term because comparing between the two, Super Secret seems to have more surface tension it itself.

Image


Here's a video of the surface adhesion (fluid slip??) difference between two drops of Super Secret and UFO: https://imgur.com/kh1soGZ

Super Secret is a lot more runny. I can get one drop to "balance" on the roller, but two will cause it to migrate to the bottom and drip off. Two drops of UFO won't budge. They behave differently once cured as well. If I backpedal my chain with UFO, it sheds as a fine powder. Super Secret's sheddings are definitely larger and perhaps a little gummier. I have no idea how this effects performance or durability, but UFO is definitely easier to apply. I can drag the bottle along the chain and not lose a single drop. If I do the same with Super Secret, it seems like 1/3 of it ends up on my floor.

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fa63
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Location: Atlanta, GA, US

by fa63

This has been my exact experience as well. Applying the Super Secret indoors gets quite messy sometimes, not to mention the annoyance of watching expensive lube go to waste.
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Super Secret is a lot more runny. I can get one drop to "balance" on the roller, but two will cause it to migrate to the bottom and drip off. Two drops of UFO won't budge. They behave differently once cured as well. If I backpedal my chain with UFO, it sheds as a fine powder. Super Secret's sheddings are definitely larger and perhaps a little gummier. I have no idea how this effects performance or durability, but UFO is definitely easier to apply. I can drag the bottle along the chain and not lose a single drop. If I do the same with Super Secret, it seems like 1/3 of it ends up on my floor.

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TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

That being said, one drop per roller is enough. It's just a little time consuming to carefully dab one drop per roller and still have a 3-4 drops end up on the floor despite being extraordinarily careful.

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