Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

spartan
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

first youtuber with hand on 12 speed. worth the watch

yeah 11 speed chainrings work on new groupsets. no surprise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARzsCVObM3I
Current Rides:

2019 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Bora Di2 9150
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7

ooo
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

Have you reviews for shimano app?

2.6 score from 1,494 on play market reviews
1.0 score from appstore reviews

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... views=true

Tried to update firmware and it bricked my bike. Do not use to update firmware! Had to spend $350 for a hard ware device and cable to update using W10 PC app. It tries to download over 2.4 GHz BT. I even turned off my router's 2.4 radio and no luck. This app looks great for setting bike up over Bluetooth, but never hand a chance except for a quick look. I am an EE with over 30 years of experience designing, programming embedded devices and writing apps on PC clients to exercise them. SQA? NOT!

https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/e-tube-pr ... ll/reviews

As the other reviews say, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE THIS APP FOR FIRMWARE UPDATES. It will have an error and you’ll either have to fix it by connecting to USB or bringing it to a shop for fixing.

etc

after reading all of that, I was seriously worried that they decided not to use charging port for wired firmware update

BCR2 cheap wired firmware updater - not supported with 12s e-tube di2
PCe1 first gen professional wired firmware tool for bike shops - not supported by 12s e-tube di2 (many bike shops have it)
PCe2 second gen professional wired firmware tool for bike shops - is supported with 12s e-tube di2 (but very a few bike shops have it)

I hope we will see higher review scores in appstores later. Before that, I would recommend to ignore all updates and ride stock firmware...
'

by Weenie


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henau212
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:27 pm

by henau212

ooo wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:03 pm
Have you reviews for shimano app?

2.6 score from 1,494 on play market reviews
1.0 score from appstore reviews

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... views=true

Tried to update firmware and it bricked my bike. Do not use to update firmware! Had to spend $350 for a hard ware device and cable to update using W10 PC app. It tries to download over 2.4 GHz BT. I even turned off my router's 2.4 radio and no luck. This app looks great for setting bike up over Bluetooth, but never hand a chance except for a quick look. I am an EE with over 30 years of experience designing, programming embedded devices and writing apps on PC clients to exercise them. SQA? NOT!

https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/e-tube-pr ... ll/reviews

As the other reviews say, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE THIS APP FOR FIRMWARE UPDATES. It will have an error and you’ll either have to fix it by connecting to USB or bringing it to a shop for fixing.

etc

after reading all of that, I was seriously worried that they decided not to use charging port for wired firmware update

BCR2 cheap wired firmware updater - not supported with 12s e-tube di2
PCe1 first gen professional wired firmware tool for bike shops - not supported by 12s e-tube di2 (many bike shops have it)
PCe2 second gen professional wired firmware tool for bike shops - is supported with 12s e-tube di2 (but very a few bike shops have it)

I hope we will see higher review scores in appstores later. Before that, I would recommend to ignore all updates and ride stock firmware...
Shimano Hardware is excellent, the software on the other hand is shit (newest example being their webservice).. I bricked my UT 11s with that and had to borrow a Windows pc to fix it. Update on GRX Di2 on the other hand was Fine.

User avatar
pdlpsher1
Posts: 3511
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I fully agree Shimano software is very bad when compared to their hardware. But I've also learned that none of the firmware revisions actually improve shifting performance in any way. The revisions are created for the sake of compatibility with newer Di2 components such as eBike components. So in conclusion never update the firmware if your setup is already working.

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 3511
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

spartan wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:37 pm
first youtuber with hand on 12 speed. worth the watch

yeah 11 speed chainrings work on new groupsets. no surprise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARzsCVObM3I
A good video. But I wish he could have taken time to measure any differences in the chainring tooth profile. I know it works but I'm still curious as to whether there are small differences in the tooth profile and chainring spacing. The same goes for the rear cassette. I would assume the 12-speed cogs are thinner but by how much?

Midstar
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:08 pm

by Midstar

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:29 pm
spartan wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:37 pm
first youtuber with hand on 12 speed. worth the watch

yeah 11 speed chainrings work on new groupsets. no surprise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARzsCVObM3I
A good video. But I wish he could have taken time to measure any differences in the chainring tooth profile. I know it works but I'm still curious as to whether there are small differences in the tooth profile and chainring spacing. The same goes for the rear cassette. I would assume the 12-speed cogs are thinner but by how much?
Why you wanna know this? :roll:

Ritxis
Posts: 865
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

Midstar wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:56 pm
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:29 pm
spartan wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:37 pm
first youtuber with hand on 12 speed. worth the watch

yeah 11 speed chainrings work on new groupsets. no surprise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARzsCVObM3I
A good video. But I wish he could have taken time to measure any differences in the chainring tooth profile. I know it works but I'm still curious as to whether there are small differences in the tooth profile and chainring spacing. The same goes for the rear cassette. I would assume the 12-speed cogs are thinner but by how much?
Why you wanna know this? :roll:
know the spacing and width of the cassette cogs?? (this is what interests me the most)

easy answer, see if with the Chinese 12s cassettes for HG you can make a custom cassette ......start at 12 or 13 ... not everyone needs cogs 11 even 12

Sleeprequired
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:59 am

by Sleeprequired

BigBoyND wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:21 am
So how many people are planning to run the optional wire from the shifters? Is it confirmed that the battery life doubles by doing so?

I don't mind running an extra wire before the BB is installed.

Weight wise, it looks like no wire is lighter: 2 x 1.8 grams (CR1632 batteries) vs. 16 grams (1600mm EW-SD300 cable)
Hey I'm curious what your venge build will look like, can you Message me with what you're planning?

Also how do you think the shifting will be compared full 'hyper glide+'?

That's my only concern swapping out all these parts, apart from not being able to get them.

BigBoyND
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Seoul, KR

by BigBoyND

Sleeprequired wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:51 pm
Hey I'm curious what your venge build will look like, can you Message me with what you're planning?

Also how do you think the shifting will be compared full 'hyper glide+'?

That's my only concern swapping out all these parts, apart from not being able to get them.
What do you mean about shifting?

I'll post up a build thread this winter, but I can PM you my build list sooner if you're interested
2019 Spec Venge 58cm <6.9kg target
- R9270, Quarq, i9.65, Look Xpro
2021 Canyon Speedmax Disc CF8 XL heavy
- R8000, P2M, SwissSide 62/80, Speedplay Aero

Retired:
2020 Pina Prince 59.5cm 7.4kg
2017 Cervélo P5 58cm heavy

Sleeprequired
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:59 am

by Sleeprequired

BigBoyND wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:36 pm
Sleeprequired wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:51 pm
Hey I'm curious what your venge build will look like, can you Message me with what you're planning?

Also how do you think the shifting will be compared full 'hyper glide+'?

That's my only concern swapping out all these parts, apart from not being able to get them.
What do you mean about shifting?

I'll post up a build thread this winter, but I can PM you my build list sooner if you're interested
Well the new DA is hyper glide+ for the first time, and I'm worried changing out components like the crank and chainrings might compromise the shifting.

And you please do send the list. I'm looking at an SL7 build and at 20,100 AUD I'd like to consider other components simply because there is literally no discount.

It'll be da9200 groupset though and I may have to sell the crank if I end up not using it

BigBoyND
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Seoul, KR

by BigBoyND

There's been enough confirmation that 11sp cranksets are fine with 12 speed chains and the new groupset. But if you want 100% guarantee, get a 12sp chainset. I opted for Praxis rings. This year's models list 12sp Shimano compatibility. The rest of my drivetrain will be R9200, so I expect zero issues.

Happy to send a build list. Will get that over later today.
2019 Spec Venge 58cm <6.9kg target
- R9270, Quarq, i9.65, Look Xpro
2021 Canyon Speedmax Disc CF8 XL heavy
- R8000, P2M, SwissSide 62/80, Speedplay Aero

Retired:
2020 Pina Prince 59.5cm 7.4kg
2017 Cervélo P5 58cm heavy

Sleeprequired
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:59 am

by Sleeprequired

BigBoyND wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:30 pm
There's been enough confirmation that 11sp cranksets are fine with 12 speed chains and the new groupset. But if you want 100% guarantee, get a 12sp chainset. I opted for Praxis rings. This year's models list 12sp Shimano compatibility. The rest of my drivetrain will be R9200, so I expect zero issues.

Happy to send a build list. Will get that over later today.
Champion cheers

ipenguinking
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:14 pm
Location: Sunny So Cal

by ipenguinking

Thanks to Shimano who has been turning out excelletn FD over a decade. We have have riders running SRM 7800, 7900 or even flexy non-Shiamno rings with DA or Ultegra, Di2 or Mechanical FD in the team. They just work.

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slake21
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:59 am
Location: EU

by slake21

found a set on ebay for EUR 4,450 8)
2019 BMC Teammachine SLR01 Disc 7kg PedalRoom

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Lelandjt
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:10 am

by Lelandjt

ms6073 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:48 pm
tyro13 wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:34 am
Does anyone knows if there is comming a cassette that starts with a 14 cog? (Like previous ultegra 14-28)
The wife and I both use the Ultegra CS-R8000 14-28 cassettes, but we are niche users as this was primarlily targeted for junior racers under the age of 18 who are limited to 7.93 meters (26’) of development. I suspect that for 9200, instread of a the typical 52x14 combo requiring a dedicated cassette, Shimano is expecting juniors to pair smaller chainrings with the wider range cassettes.
Is that still a rule? I thought I heard about it ending around a decade ago. Always seemed weird to me. I've run the same gearing (39/53 11-23) since my first road bike when I was 16 and I'm 41 now. It's always felt perfect and everyone else's gearing I've tried has felt worse.
Also, the UCI doesn't limit the gearing a junior MTB or BMX racer can use.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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