Feedback on SRAM RED XG-1190 11-SPEED running with shimano

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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GregR
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:03 pm

by GregR

choochoo46 wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:26 am
Not to hijack the thread, but I have the reverse... a full Red 22 mechanical groupset and an Ultegra chain. It's my first SRAM groupset whereas all my other bikes have been 105 or Ultegra. I haven't been able to fully dial in the indexing. Shifting is slower vs. my Ultegra bike and is noisier on the largest cogs.

Anyone have any experience with that combo?

I'm using an Ultegra chain because I had an extra already and from the reviews I've read seems to be the best price / weight / durability combo. And chains are expensive now!
I'm running Red chain rings and cassette, force derailleurs and shifters and an ultegra chain. No issues.
When I had etap on that bike I tried an ultegra cassette and it was ok but the spacing is a bit different between SRAM and shimano so the indexing would be a bit different at different spots on the cassette. It drove me nuts so I switched to a SRAM cassette on that bike. I wouldn't mix SRAM and shimano shifting and cassettes again.

Weasel
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:18 am

by Weasel

choochoo46 wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:13 am
Weasel wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:30 am
choochoo46 wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:26 am
Not to hijack the thread, but I have the reverse... a full Red 22 mechanical groupset and an Ultegra chain. It's my first SRAM groupset whereas all my other bikes have been 105 or Ultegra. I haven't been able to fully dial in the indexing. Shifting is slower vs. my Ultegra bike and is noisier on the largest cogs.

Anyone have any experience with that combo?

I'm using an Ultegra chain because I had an extra already and from the reviews I've read seems to be the best price / weight / durability combo. And chains are expensive now!
Is that with a Shimano or SRAM cassette though?
SRAM Red 22 cassette... I have the full Red 22 groupset except ee brakes.
I've had similar on a SRAM Force 1x groupset (incl cassette), when I was desperate for a chain, and all I could get at the time was an Ultegra one. It worked ok, but was definitely slower, and required a bit of adjustment and 'over shifting' when changing to a larger sprocket sometimes.

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DHG01
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

choochoo46 wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:26 am
Not to hijack the thread, but I have the reverse... a full Red 22 mechanical groupset and an Ultegra chain. It's my first SRAM groupset whereas all my other bikes have been 105 or Ultegra. I haven't been able to fully dial in the indexing. Shifting is slower vs. my Ultegra bike and is noisier on the largest cogs.

Anyone have any experience with that combo?

I'm using an Ultegra chain because I had an extra already and from the reviews I've read seems to be the best price / weight / durability combo. And chains are expensive now!
Yes. 2 bikes with Red, both mechanical, one disc the other rim. Both gravel bikes. One has an Ultegra 11-34 cassette (just came back from a ride), the other with ZTTO 11-34 alloy. They both shift fine; the ZTTO has, surprisingly, improved with time.

The 11-32 XG 1190 that came with one of the group sets is on a road wheel that either goes on Shimano 9000 or 9100 - the OPs case. I think it shifts fine, perhaps a bit slower than the DA 11-30 that I alternate with.

tomtom
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:01 am

by tomtom

Imo: horrible! Tried it for a few rides but when under "power" on a 9170/XTR chain drivetrain it's shifts much, much worse than my "worn" 9100 cassette and make more noise. So if you're looking for an almost brand new 1190 11-26 :mrgreen: ....... :thumbup:
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GONE4ARIDE
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 2:05 am

by GONE4ARIDE

I am using 11-25 and 11-28 XG-1190 cassettes with DA Di2 9150. Both shift fine and are only slightly noisier than my DA cassettes. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one to run with Shimano.

Luften
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:31 pm

by Luften

I ran a test today: I switched the SRAM Red cassette to another bike, and... it was much better! Here are the two setups:

Look 795 Blade + Dura Ace 9150 + BBInfinite Larger Jockey Wheels + Corima 47WS+ wheels + SRAM Red Cassette:
-> Not a great combo: Slower shifting + a lot more noise in the largest three cogs. Annoying enough to want to change back to a DA cassette.

SS Evo HM + Dura Ace 9150 (normal pulley wheels) + Bora WTO 33 wheels + SRAM Red Cassette:
-> Shifting speed almost as quick as the DA cassette, maybe 90% of the way there, and while it's a bit noisier, it's much quieter than in the setup above. It has some more noise only in the largest cog, but it's not all that bad and only that one cog. Overall it's good enough to use and I'll be keeping this setup.

I'm not sure what specifically is the reason... between the wheels/hubs, the exact position of the crankset within the bike, the jockey wheels, etc. But it's significantly better on the SS Evo setup.

As a side, the DA cassette really eats into the freehub body! The SRAM Red cassette didn't slide right on because of the burrs caused by the cogs digging in, it took a little bit of force to push past them. Yuck. It hasn't caused any issues while riding though, just the bad feeling when switching cassettes or looking at the freehub body.

Lukus
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:55 pm

by Lukus

Luften great feedback and this goes some way to explaining the contrasting feedback. As it happens one of my builds I was thinking of lightening up a bit is a caad12 so hopefully the similar geometry might mean the sram red dura ace pair well 🤞

Lukus
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:55 pm

by Lukus

Update BDoP 11-28 cassette installed on hunt UD50 running with dura ace mechanical with new jag wire I link cables.

Arrived to Uk within 2 weeks of order. Weight as claimed 189g.

Shifting through range. Tiny bit sluggish on shifting even after quite a bit of tuning and attention to detail. Definitely noisier in comparison with shimano ultegra but not so noisy it is a nuisance.


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ryanw
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by ryanw

Funny you're saying they're noiser.

I run the 11-25T CG-1190 on two sets of wheels and it's much quieter than DA9100 cassettes.

Shifting is perfect and crisp, super sharp and zero hesitation.

This is on an SL7 with DM hanger and CS OSPW.

Have used both CN-HG901 and CN-M9100 chains with zero issues.
Last edited by ryanw on Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SL7 S-Works - 6.59kg
OPEN U.P.P.E.R. - 6.79kg
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Lukus
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:55 pm

by Lukus

I can only compare with ultegra cassette which was on before. Will persevere with tuning but I was pretty meticulous during set up and also followed up with local highly regarded bike builder and he couldn’t improve on it. It’s perfectly rideable but noticeably noisier overall and not as crisp on the shift.

Using kmc chain for completeness


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edchristoph
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:40 am

by edchristoph

ryanw wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:45 pm
Funny you're saying they're noiser.

I run the 11-25T CG-1190 on two sets of wheels and it's much quieter than DA9100 cassettes.

Shifting is perfect and crisp, super sharp and zero hesitation.

This is on an SL7 with DM hanger and CS OSPW.

Have used both CN-HG901 and CN-M9100 chains with zero issues.
There was a similar thread on this topic about a year ago where I reportet about my experience which is similar to ryanw:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=163347&p=1612851#p1612851

So while for me and a few others the XG1190 casette is working equal or better than the original DA casette, many folks in this thread report the opposite, i.e., XG1190 not working well with DA9150 Di2 drivetrain. Why is that?

Some people are changing their DA 11-XX cassette to XG1190 11-32...
KCookie wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:19 pm
I changed to a Sram 1190 11-32 cassette for today's ride and I'll certainly be changing back to DA 11-30. I have this cassette on my other bike and the shifting is quite, quick and just perfect.
...
There are two issues with that:
1) 11-32 cassettes exceeds the capacity of the DA9100 drivetrain which is 35T IIRC. 11-30 cassette is max for DA9100. Guess why there is no CS-R9100 with 11-32?
2) going to a larger cassette needs a longer chain. Otherwise, chain tension is getting to high which impairs shifting quality towards the larger cogs.

Given that ryan and myself are using OSPW's which not only increases the capacity of the drivetrain, it also forces you to adjust both chainlenght and tension to get crisp and precise shifting. My suspicion is, to get good results from a XG1190 casette with a DA drivetrain, you have to keep an eye on having correct chainlength and -tension (through adjusting the RD) and of course you must not exceed the overall capacity of the DA9100 drivetrain (which is 35T IIRC).

This might also explain why it is working poorly on one bike and acceptable on another bike. The goemetry of those two bikes might by different, particularly the chainstays have different lengths. So, most probably thesse bikes have different chainlenghts and -tensions, one of which is working with the XG1190 casette and the other is not.

Just a couple of thoughts...

KCookie
Posts: 1935
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Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

Hi edchristoph.

Thanks for the info. Appreciated.

Both bikes are the same, and I did go longer on the chain by one link, maybe this is not enough and I need to try two links and see if this helps the shifting.

I can only try, if this still doesn't work I might go 50/34 and see if this helps.

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edchristoph
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:40 am

by edchristoph

KCookie wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:01 pm
Hi edchristoph.

Thanks for the info. Appreciated.

Both bikes are the same, and I did go longer on the chain by one link, maybe this is not enough and I need to try two links and see if this helps the shifting.

I can only try, if this still doesn't work I might go 50/34 and see if this helps.

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I was referring to the OP's test with a Look 795 vs SS Evo HM. The SuperSix has a slightly longer chainstay than the Look 795 RS (408mm vs 405mm). Assuming equal chainlenghts on both bikes, there is a little more slack (lower chaintension) on the Look, which might already explain why shifting is better on the Cannondale. But that is just a guess as there might be other differences which we are no seeing.

For instance, an even slightly bent hanger can make a huge difference here. Had this myself. Shifting was ok with the DA 11-30, but I couldn't get it to work properly with XG1190 11-30. After I checked my hanger which turned out to be slightly misaligned, shifting with the XG1190 was spot on all of a sudden.

Another idea here is chain wear. Certainly avoid using the old chain from your DA cassette with your new Sram cassette. New cassette = new chain. I change chains regularly, probably long before one would typically consider them to be worn out. I just can't stand the feeling of a half worn out chain, when everything in the drivetrain starts to feel noticeably less crisp.

While each case might be different and we will probably never get to the one golden trick that fixes it for everyone, if it exists at all, I am just describing that it neither worked for me out of the box. I got really frustrated about it until I fixed the alignment of the hanger and optimized chainlength and -tension.

edchristoph
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:40 am

by edchristoph

KCookie wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:01 pm
Hi edchristoph.

Thanks for the info. Appreciated.

Both bikes are the same, and I did go longer on the chain by one link, maybe this is not enough and I need to try two links and see if this helps the shifting.

I can only try, if this still doesn't work I might go 50/34 and see if this helps.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
I was referring to the OP's test with a Look 795 vs SS Evo HM. The SuperSix has a slightly longer chainstay than the Look 795 RS (408mm vs 405mm). Assuming equal chainlenghts on both bikes, there is a little more slack (lower chaintension) on the Look, which might already explain why shifting is better on the Cannondale. But that is just a guess as there might be other differences which we are no seeing.

For instance, an even slightly bent hanger can make a huge difference here. Had this myself. Shifting was ok with the DA 11-30, but I couldn't get it to work properly with XG1190 11-30. After I checked my hanger which turned out to be slightly misaligned, shifting with the XG1190 was spot on all of a sudden.

Another idea here is chain wear. Certainly avoid using the old chain from your DA cassette with your new Sram cassette. New cassette = new chain. I change chains regularly, probably long before one would typically consider them to be worn out. I just can't stand the feeling of a half worn out chain, when everything in the drivetrain starts to feel noticeably less crisp.

While each case might be different and we will probably never get to the one golden trick that fixes it for everyone, if it exists at all, I am just describing that it neither worked for me out of the box. I got really frustrated about it until I fixed the alignment of the hanger and optimized chainlength and -tension.

Question: How can you go longer by just one link? Isn't the quantization of chainlength in steps of 2 links, 1 narrow + 1 wide?

Luften
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:31 pm

by Luften

edchristoph wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:39 pm

I was referring to the OP's test with a Look 795 vs SS Evo HM. The SuperSix has a slightly longer chainstay than the Look 795 RS (408mm vs 405mm). Assuming equal chainlenghts on both bikes, there is a little more slack (lower chaintension) on the Look, which might already explain why shifting is better on the Cannondale. But that is just a guess as there might be other differences which we are no seeing.
These are my bikes. It won't be the same chain length on both bikes - each chain was sized appropriately for the setup (including the larger pulley wheels on the Look). Both bikes are newly built up this year and have less than 1000km on them, so all of the wear parts are in good condition.

I'll check the derailleur hangar alignment, but I did align them already during the original builds and the bikes haven't been knocked or travelled with so I'm guessing they'll be fine. Also if the alignment had an issue then shifting with the DA cassette would likely also be problematic, which it's not.

Gremlins in the system? :noidea:

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