Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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LainOTN
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Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:01 pm

by LainOTN

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 2:59 am
So what does this mean? Will Dura Ace have piezo switches as mentioned earlier in this thread or the more traditional coin cell battery? These newly released patents don't necessarily mean the production units will use coin cells. It could also be possible that the Dura Ace will use piezo while the Ultegra will have coin cells. That might be a way for Shimano to differentiate the two groupsets. The piezo shifters might be a tiny bit lighter and smaller than the non-piezo ones.
I didn't see anything related to piezostuff on the patent, but by the description the coin cell seems to be rechargeable as there are charging ports on the handles.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

LainOTN wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 8:05 am

I didn't see anything related to piezostuff on the patent, but by the description the coin cell seems to be rechargeable as there are charging ports on the handles.

While rechargeable coin cells exist, they are no widely used and not particularly useful. You'd be combining the bulk of removable batteries with the lower capacity rechargeables. It would also add to the up-front cost of the component.

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LainOTN
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by LainOTN

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 8:14 am
LainOTN wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 8:05 am

I didn't see anything related to piezostuff on the patent, but by the description the coin cell seems to be rechargeable as there are charging ports on the handles.

While rechargeable coin cells exist, they are no widely used and not particularly useful. You'd be combining the bulk of removable batteries with the lower capacity rechargeables. It would also add to the up-front cost of the component.
yep, but the patent is clear on the charging capabilities and also states the possibility of wireless charging. Covering all grounds on the patent I suppose.

rollinslow
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by rollinslow

I'm not a fan of the coin cell. Currently, with Di2 I just plug in a single cable to my handlebaar and the whole system is ready to go. Now with semi-wireless, I'll have to think about the circa 1990 coin cell battery at some point down when it dies. I really don't see what was wrong with wired the more I think about it. Maybe simplify the junction process. Hardwired items just work and they work well.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Dura Ace 9100
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Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
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rob86
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by rob86

rollinslow wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:27 am
I'm not a fan of the coin cell. Currently, with Di2 I just plug in a single cable to my handlebaar and the whole system is ready to go. Now with semi-wireless, I'll have to think about the circa 1990 coin cell battery at some point down when it dies. I really don't see what was wrong with wired the more I think about it. Maybe simplify the junction process. Hardwired items just work and they work well.
There is nothing wrong with wired. It's a perfect solution. 6 flawless years on Di2. 0 maintenance on the electrical wires, 0 outfalls. The tiny wire can easily be integrated next to the chunky brake cables.

LainOTN
Posts: 48
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by LainOTN

rollinslow wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 11:27 am
I'm not a fan of the coin cell. Currently, with Di2 I just plug in a single cable to my handlebaar and the whole system is ready to go. Now with semi-wireless, I'll have to think about the circa 1990 coin cell battery at some point down when it dies. I really don't see what was wrong with wired the more I think about it. Maybe simplify the junction process. Hardwired items just work and they work well.
The patent specified clearly that you can choose to be wired and the handles will take power from the main battery. The downside is that we will carry extra weight we dont use. But wired seems to be a valid option based on the patents.

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Dov
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by Dov

Also have had zero issues wiht Di2 wired systmes and mine is well integrated with barend port and all cables internal.

There's obvious pressure from SRAM's wireless system for Shimano to do something more 'modern' but I'm not convinved it's worthwhile - looking forward to finding out though and I'm open to whatever Shimano comes up with.

If coin cells opearte the shifters and are good for a lot of shifting (10k+) then changing them can jsut become part of your annual/bi-annual maintenance program; cables, bartape, coin cells, etc.. they are cheap, readily available and sticking a couple in your puncture kit is zero effort.
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blaugrana
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by blaugrana

I would also prefer it to be wired, honestly. It's a tradeoff between being more convenient to install, or more convenient to live with (less stuff to charge, and less often) and less lag. Sure, wireless is the new thing, but if the main advantage of the new thing is that it's easier to install, I can just stay on the old thing, which is already installed.

Also, any bike will have hydraulic lines or brake cables anyway, so it's not like having wireless shifting simplifies the frame design massively. Having one tiny cable next to that chunky hydraulic hose doesn't really make much of a difference.

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Cannoli
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by Cannoli

blaugrana wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 1:10 pm
I would also prefer it to be wired, honestly. It's a tradeoff between being more convenient to install, or more convenient to live with (less stuff to charge, and less often) and less lag. Sure, wireless is the new thing, but if the main advantage of the new thing is that it's easier to install, I can just stay on the old thing, which is already installed.

Also, any bike will have hydraulic lines or brake cables anyway, so it's not like having wireless shifting simplifies the frame design massively. Having one tiny cable next to that chunky hydraulic hose doesn't really make much of a difference.
This has been my line of thinking too. I really don't see an advantage to wireless except for patter at the coffee shop after a group ride (e.g. "my wireless is bigger than yours").
Canyon Aeroad CFR Di2 | Canyon Ultimate SLX 9.0 Di2 | Trek Domane SL5 Disc (Gravel Bike / Fly-Away Road Bike) | Orbea Tera H-30 Disc (Touring Bike)

upacs
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by upacs

The chatter is that wireless speeds up the build process. May be not important to the home mechanic, but apparently for shops it does speed up the process vs having to fish wires out of frames.

How much a semi-wireless solution helps here is unclear, SRAM being fully wireless would very much have the upper hand in this scenario.

As per coin cell batteries on the shifters - how often do you change the CR-2032 battery on your heart rate monitor? and those broadcast a signal at least once per second. Shifters would send a signal once-in-a-blue-moon in comparison. It's really a non issue. As long as they can somehow notify the user that the battery will need replacing soon, like HRMs do (I get a popup in my Garmin for that)

jadedaid
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by jadedaid

For those of us who fly with the bike frequently, wireless is easier as I just unclip the batteries and I'm done. It's more of a hassle with Di2.
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ryanw
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by ryanw

SD300 wire connectors are tiny, super easy front end install, but I'd run wirelss just because...
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ipenguinking
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by ipenguinking

OEM sale is one single biggest category for Shimano and Sram. I'm certain that big bike brands like Specialized, Trek, Giant are very happy to save 10+ minutes from assembling bike w wireless components. 10 min can translate to a lot of profit. Not to mention more money saved from not needing dedicated space on frame for di2 junction box and holes for di2 wire.

tjvirden
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by tjvirden

Stendhal wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 4:11 pm


road.cc is reporting that new Shimano patent applications signal a semi-wireless 12 speed system. Semi-wireless means the shifters communicate electronically without wires, but the two derailleurs are connected by wires.
road.cc are always the last to catch onto anything, and in any case there's not one minute jot of technical understanding from any of their "reviewers" - staff or third-party contribututors......they produce a pile of BS; that's just my opinion of course :)

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C36
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by C36

jadedaid wrote:For those of us who fly with the bike frequently, wireless is easier as I just unclip the batteries and I'm done. It's more of a hassle with Di2.
Can you elaborate? Flying with the bike few times a year and I have issues with the bar (having to remove it)... not with the di2


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