Did anybody get a 1x12 road bike and regretted it due to the larger gaps between gears?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

tjvirden
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

siovene wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:14 am
I'm getting a new bike and considering going to 1x12.
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Thanks!
OP, just try it - it's the only way you'll know if it works for you and your riding.....

tomato
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:37 pm

by tomato

tomato wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 3:50 am
Lina wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 11:55 am
Because 12 speed corn cobs are useless. Let's see some real comparisons about the tightest 11 and 12 speed Campy cassettes (11 - 23 and 11 - 29). The differences between them are pretty much as follows: as you go from 11 to 12 speed you trade 18t to 26t and add 29t on top. So you're essentially changing two 6% jumps in the 17t to 19t gap to one 12% jump and adding two more gears on top of the 23t so that you'll never need another cassette unless you're climbing super steep and long climbs. If you're using the 18t when riding fast on flat ground you're either going against hellish head wind or your chainrings are way too big for you.
You've made this silly statement (or something similar) a couple of times. Spinning at 90 RPM on your big chain ring (50 or 53) and an 18 tooth sprocket puts you at about 20-21 mph. Why in the world would that imply a strong headhead or that your chain rings are too big?
kkotsiouros wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 6:08 am
Maybe because it requires only 140 watts to do this without strong headwind ? Or maybe because you can use 48x17 to have the same speed without too big chainring (with better chainline)? Is 20mph your most time riding speed ? If yes Is the chainline straight with 52x18 at 20mph(cassette 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23) ?
Lina wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:42 am
Because 20 mph isn't fast on flat terrain if there isn't head wind pushing against you. That's an all day pace for a trained cyclist. And based on everyone I know they don't care nearly as much about the gearing when they're just plodding along at zone 2, you can easily just do what feels good at the gears you have instead of trying to eek out every watt you can constantly as you do when you're going fast. That's when the jumps matter a lot more.
There's a distinct lack of logical reasoning in these two responses. But, we can all sleep better at night knowing that, if you ever find yourself using an 18 tooth sprocket, either your chain rings are too big or you're fighting a big headwind!

by Weenie


Hexsense
Posts: 2057
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

tomato wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:40 pm
Lina wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 11:55 am
If you're using the 18t when riding fast on flat ground you're either going against hellish head wind or your chainrings are way too big for you.
if you ever find yourself using an 18 tooth sprocket, either your chain rings are too big or you're fighting a big headwind!
I do not agree with these simplified comments.
Here I attach two pictures showing my ride last Saturday.
This ride average at 35.5 km/h (22mph). Maybe headwind speed for pro, but normal to almost fast riding speed for ameteur. Big rings are 50/34t, average cadence is 95rpm (include zero in the average). And the most used gear by far are.. .
... drum roll ...
17t and 19t.

That said, I'm served well with 17t and 19t and don't really need another gear in between. I'll complain when I miss 16t during a fast surge.
So, 18t will be used a lot if it exist. But it's not when the pace pickup real fast.
Attachments
Screenshot_20210502-145544~2.png
Screenshot_20210506-134422_(1).png

raggedtrousers
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:29 pm

by raggedtrousers

To the OP: I suspect if you're not racing or doing genuinely fast group rides, 1x12 will be fine, as long as you are a reasonably strong rider and don't regularly encounter Cat 2 or harder climbs. As someone noted, the gaps will be more of an issue for racers. That said, one side issue I haven't heard stated is that 1x with the bigger cassettes can leave you with a 'bail out or nothing' gear at the bottom which is less usable than it looks on paper.

On another note, can someone please tell me how to knock out 21mph at 140w without a tailwind? I'm not a massive guy, weigh 71kg/155lb, don't ride bolt upright, and averaging 21mph/35kph will see a np of 220-240w depending on terrain. I obviously really need an aero bike... :D

joejack951
Posts: 988
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE
Contact:

by joejack951

Lina wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:32 pm
GS100 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:40 pm
Sorry to continue the slightly O/T conversation, but I have to disagree with this. As a Campagnolo user the issue preventing me going 12s (apart from cost!) is lack of 12t starting sprocket plus 29t minimum. They all start with 11t! what a way to squander the advantage of 12s..

The closest 11s ratios are 11-23 and 12-25. Closest 12s is 11-29. I have an 11s wheel set up with 12-25 (shorter rides, or where no super steep climbs), and another with 12-27 plus a triplet 23-26-29 option to swap over when I need, as the rest of the cassette has the same gears.

53/12 or 52/12 are useful gears and if I needed more than that I'm certainly better off freewheeling. Not quite a flatlander; 55ft/mile is average here, but no mountains whatsoever.
So go down to 50t or even 48t big ring. There are very few people that should be on anything above 50t. The times of big chainrings come from when cassettes started at 13t. I said it in my previous post and I'll say it again, if you're missing the 18t your chainrings are too big. Outside of that one cog the tightest 12 cassette is practically the same as the tightest 11s cassettes with not one but two extra gears.
If you compare the 12-25 11s cassette (GS100's preference and mine) you can then see the disadvantage of the 12s cassettes (assuming that the 12-25 is sufficient). For a given set of chainrings or chainring, the chainline of the 12s cassette is worse due to the 11T cog. And you lose the 18T cog.

And personally, I prefer to avoid the smallest cogs, especially 11T cogs because they just feel bad. I'll take a slightly less than ideal chainline any day over having to use small cogs. So keeping the chainrings big is something that matters to me.

And for me, big enough with a 12T small cog is a 50T chainring. I could probably make 48T work as well but certainly not as my only chainring, not without a cassette with massive jumps in order to get the low gearing I'd need. And dropping down to a 44-46T really starts cutting into the high end unless I accept an 11T cog (and even then only becomes passable). <---this being why I discarded the idea of a 1X for myself.

kkotsiouros
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:45 pm
Location: Arta Greece

by kkotsiouros

raggedtrousers wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:54 pm
To the OP: I suspect if you're not racing or doing genuinely fast group rides, 1x12 will be fine, as long as you are a reasonably strong rider and don't regularly encounter Cat 2 or harder climbs. As someone noted, the gaps will be more of an issue for racers. That said, one side issue I haven't heard stated is that 1x with the bigger cassettes can leave you with a 'bail out or nothing' gear at the bottom which is less usable than it looks on paper.

On another note, can someone please tell me how to knock out 21mph at 140w without a tailwind? I'm not a massive guy, weigh 71kg/155lb, don't ride bolt upright, and averaging 21mph/35kph will see a np of 220-240w depending on terrain. I obviously really need an aero bike... :D
The comment was about 20mph=32 km/h (32.18)

As you know the weight is not important for flat rides. watt/kg is important for uphill. Watt/m2 (power/surface2) is important for flat.

You can see in the segment: "triangle de campus by m.s." 35km/h=172watt for me (Faviero assiomas duo powermeter) and not 220-240w.
And other segment at 32km/h with 143w.
Στιγμιότυπο από 2021-05-07 00-23-58.png

Hexsense
Posts: 2057
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

/offtopic
You are certainly more aero than me.
I can only get 150w at 20mph with less than 3km/h wind in a group but not during solo.
I have wind speed and direction as well as gradient show up on my Garmin so I know when it's really flat with (almost) no wind.

A solo ride that average 32 km/h on my flat land usually takes me 175-190w.

Back to 1x discussion, seeing that I ride my whole ride using only 8 gears out of 22. I'd be fine with 1x8, let alone 1x12.

GS100
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:00 pm

by GS100

joejack951 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:37 pm
Lina wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:32 pm
GS100 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:40 pm
Sorry to continue the slightly O/T conversation, but I have to disagree with this. As a Campagnolo user the issue preventing me going 12s (apart from cost!) is lack of 12t starting sprocket plus 29t minimum. They all start with 11t! what a way to squander the advantage of 12s..

The closest 11s ratios are 11-23 and 12-25. Closest 12s is 11-29. I have an 11s wheel set up with 12-25 (shorter rides, or where no super steep climbs), and another with 12-27 plus a triplet 23-26-29 option to swap over when I need, as the rest of the cassette has the same gears.

53/12 or 52/12 are useful gears and if I needed more than that I'm certainly better off freewheeling. Not quite a flatlander; 55ft/mile is average here, but no mountains whatsoever.
So go down to 50t or even 48t big ring. There are very few people that should be on anything above 50t. The times of big chainrings come from when cassettes started at 13t. I said it in my previous post and I'll say it again, if you're missing the 18t your chainrings are too big. Outside of that one cog the tightest 12 cassette is practically the same as the tightest 11s cassettes with not one but two extra gears.
If you compare the 12-25 11s cassette (GS100's preference and mine) you can then see the disadvantage of the 12s cassettes (assuming that the 12-25 is sufficient). For a given set of chainrings or chainring, the chainline of the 12s cassette is worse due to the 11T cog. And you lose the 18T cog.

And personally, I prefer to avoid the smallest cogs, especially 11T cogs because they just feel bad. I'll take a slightly less than ideal chainline any day over having to use small cogs. So keeping the chainrings big is something that matters to me.

And for me, big enough with a 12T small cog is a 50T chainring. I could probably make 48T work as well but certainly not as my only chainring, not without a cassette with massive jumps in order to get the low gearing I'd need. And dropping down to a 44-46T really starts cutting into the high end unless I accept an 11T cog (and even then only becomes passable). <---this being why I discarded the idea of a 1X for myself.
Exactly!

As for "go down to 48t big ring" - thanks but no thanks. This necessesitates use of the 11t, and for a fair bit of the time too - more wear, less efficient, noisier etc. Plus, I assume I'd have to give up my 39t as well, which, as I say, is a useful small ring for me where and how I ride, but not so small I suddenly spin uselessly upon changing down.

Several points weren't properly addressed by Lina, I'm not sure why he's lecturing people on here when I wouldn't presume to tell him what to ride. Weird.

GS100
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:00 pm

by GS100

Just saw this, RE preferring the old campy closer range cassettes - in good company as today's Giro stage winner on 11s still as doesn't want the 29t!..

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/caleb- ... heres-why/

cheapvega
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

Just did the maiden voyage on 46x11-36. Actually felt great and I feel like I was faster overall with not having to fumble between chainrings. Admittedly I'm having a problem getting into the smallest rear cog so at times I found myself topping out! But for my level of fitness right now and the roads near me I like it. And it's gonna make getting under 6kg a breeze. Real test will be my next hilly ride but we'll see

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