Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
sethjs
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

Just got a chance to quickly play with 12 speed at Sea Otter. Shifted the rear derailleur around some. The feel of the two shift levers is much more "crisp" than on my pre-2012 SR. The thumb button is also substantially larger. And that little "flourish" of a point at the top of the hoods that points "in" toward the center of the bike? Very noticeable (though didn't seem "functional" in any way).

Final thought: loved the look of the SR crank in person.

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Kjetil
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Location: Hamar, Norway
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by Kjetil

Thanks a lot, c60rider!
Bianchi-Campagnolo


c60rider
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

Calnago wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:17 pm
@c60rider: thanks for that. I had some questions but i forgot to send them to you beforehand. Oh well, it’s not like I’m getting it tomorrow. The front mech looks all business. I like it. Did you notice if it still required the inline adjuster. I can set it up just fine without bu was wondering if they incorporated that into the front derailleur like Shimano did with 9100. Good to hear about the brakes. But if you want to do a dedicated rain bike with 25’s and full fenders, you’ll still have to pay pretty close attention to the frame you select.
Still wanting for more info on front chainring compatibility. The holes must be the same configuration if there’s even murmurs of a possible “workaround”. I suspect it may be just a slight spacing issue but I’ll just have to wait and see. Glad they’re keeping the relationship with P2M and SRM. No complaints there. Whether P2M and/or SRM feel playing in the Campy pool is worth it to them is a separate issue I suppose. As for the pages of cassette talk... I just didn’t get it. An 11/27 might be nice ultimate racers choice, but the gaps are totally fine with so many cogs. The 11/27 would likely give the 18 tooth and beyond 19, then 2 or 3 tooth gaps are on a percentage change basis just fine. See @ooo’s chart he posted way back in this thread somewhere. All in all I think this group is going to be a big hit.
Oh, did Graeme mention anything more about the new cables... like are they coated like Shimano’s, thinner like SRAM’s, etc. I kind of like the uncoated stainless steel strands of cables over the coated stuff. Can’t wait to set one up for real. I have someone in the queue with a new build waiting to happen and I told him that anything but Campy 12sp is unacceptable at this point, and if he wants me to build it, then 11sp is not an option given that the 12sp is so close. :).
Didn't notice the inline adjuster my view was taken up with the ugly disc brake levers. Graeme said they just couldn't make anything smaller than that and still retain the ergopower lever feel, along with being able to dissipate heat out of the fluid etc unless they used dot oil which would come with all sorts of additional problems they wanted to avoid.
I think the chainring issue is purely spacing I forgot to take a pic of the inside of the crankset that may have given a clue. Though I'm guessing if our 11 speed chain tools fit then for sure our 11 speed chainrings must also fit the 12 speed chain so in the short term the SRM/P2M power meters should work if they're a bit slow with the workaround or to manufacture new spiders. Though there's going to be new crank arms needed to match the new 12 speed logos.
Frame-wise for me to make a proper wet weather bike is why I'll likely go full custom frame. I don't want disc brakes (did I hear Graeme say he doesn't like them himself, erm yes I did, though that's the look rather than the function) so that could make clearance tight with rim brakes. Can't be as tight as my current set up where new 23mm continental clinchers with the nibs in the middle of the tread rub against the underside of the mudguards.
I forgot to ask the specifics about the cables I asked more why the poxy name of 'maximum smoothness' that sounds much better in Italian! Perhaps they're planning an ultimate version. I didn't ask about wireless as for me personally I'm not too interested in that and it'll be known when it's released later this year.

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

One work-around might be using an 11 speed front derailleur if you wanted to use an 11 speed crankset.

c60rider
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

AJS914 wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:31 pm
One work-around might be using an 11 speed front derailleur if you wanted to use an 11 speed crankset.
As long as the new 12 speed lever is compatible :noidea:

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

It's not going to be 100% but the spacing has to be pretty close. People are going to have to experiment a bit.

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otoman
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Nashville

by otoman

neeb wrote: It’ll probably need to be rejoined in the heart of a neutron star using a special pin forged from one of the dwarfish rings of power.
This comment...

ImageImageImage

My sci-fi and fantasy nerd is coming out but that comment totally made me LOL... Image. Good one neeb
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

MiddMan
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:54 pm

by MiddMan

I have mixed feelings about 12 speed myself. Let me say from the outset though that I have nothing against those who want it or like it (we all know ww can get heated sometimes, hence my diplomacy).

Personally, I don’t see the need unless we’re talking dedicated climbing bike, but then, a compact crank would mitigate the need for larger cogs in the first place. For those who want even lower gears than 39x27 or even 36x27, why not forgo 12 speed for a triple crank? I mean this seriously and not sarcastically. How much more would a triple weigh versus having a 32er or so on the cassette?
dgasmd wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:36 pm
Like I said from the day it was released, this seems like a great choice for a "strickly climbing bike with a compact". Leave the 11SP for flat lands and standard crank. Even better if there is a wireless EPS coming out for either one or both. Then, the mechanical 11 sp goes to the back up bike! Or both, climbing and flat ride bikes get EPS!!!!!

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themidge
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Location: Freeedooom!

by themidge

+1, triples look a lot better than massive cassettes IMO.
Although, what's that saying about triples and tripels?
Last edited by themidge on Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Triple shifting is clunkier. I have nothing against 12 speed and I'll probably own it some day but it's diminishing returns. I usually run a 12-29 but occasionally wish I had a 32. a 12-32 would be great but they probably won't make that one.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I was totally into my Record Triple crank when going to the alps etc for several weeks at a shot. Wanted close ratio gears. Had 10 speed. So, ideal gearing... 12/25 cassette, Triple Record crank (30/39/53). Mid Cage derailleur. Cuz the long cage was so uncool, as was the dinner plate of a cassette back then (13/29). That combo was fabulous for anything. Close ratios and a bailout granny ring of 30 teeth for those long climbs. Only had to watch that I didn’t get too cross chained in the small ring -and the 3 or 4 smallest cogs. Never a problem. Still have that setup collecting dust somewhere in case I ever go back and want the Triple setup. Beats the hell out of any 1x any day. The day I slap a 42 tooth cassette on my road bike is...well... that day will never come. :)
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

c60rider
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by c60rider

There's no way on planet earth that any sprocket on a road bike should have more teeth than a chainring. I mentioned triple some while ago but it was in the middle of the heated cassette size debate so that got overlooked. I wonder the weight of an 11-25 and triple compares with 11-32 and a double. Can only be a few grams but that'll never happen with Campagnolo top end groups. It's far simpler to make larger sprockets and tweak the rear mech. Isn't Athena available in triple? At least it's still out there for sale as old stock.

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themidge
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by themidge

Yeah, triples are definitely a dying breed, understandably, as they aren't particularly necessary for most riding, not to mention uncool. Shimano used to make a triple all the way up to 105 level (or maybe even ultegra?) but now I don't think you can even get a Tiagra one.
I concur about cassettes shouldn't be bigger than chainrings, serious question here: has anyone reading ever actually needed easier than 1:1? That's a veeery low gear in my book.

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

No, at least not on paved roads where if you ever did have a use for lower than 1:1 you’d be far better off walking. On my all out fully loaded touring bike I actually have a 26 up front and a 32 at back, so I guess yes, that’s lower than 1:1, but that thing when loaded is 90lbs. I can go up anything with that... just takes a while as the legs are spinning and you don’t seem to be moving very fast. Super bailout. But on anything approaching a nice road bike... no.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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Miller
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

This is a very Anglo forum. I think out there in Continental Yoorp, what with the Alps and all, triples may still be a thing. There again I expect the modern riposte to a triple is... an e-bike.

Sorry.


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