"PRO" Cycling Discussion

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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xnavalav8r
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:09 pm

by xnavalav8r

Disappointing news. I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will all cry "doping coverup."

by Weenie


KWalker
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

You are hilarious. Because its an old American you idolize its a "conspiracy theory" when a hormone is out of wack as it often is when anabolic agents are taken to enhance performance.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

maquisard
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Location: France

by maquisard

I don't think there is any question that this is low cortisol arising from corticosteroid consumption. Horner and the team allude to him having a TUE and the drug being used to tackle bronchitis which has been plaguing him since the Tour de France. Such drugs also offer performance benefits however, so just like Froome at Romandie questions should be asked whether he is fit to race. Thankfully the MPCC rules mean that a ride who has been on long term corticosteroids should be rested to allow there levels to return to normal before returning to racing. Froome on the other hand no tonly carried on racing, but won Romandie in a dominating fashion.

KWalker
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Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

My guess is Froome's level weren't as high as Horner's. With his past dodgy-looking bio passports either age or something else has his body fluctuating a lot and often in unnatural directions.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

maquisard
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Location: France

by maquisard

There is no mention of Horner having elevated cortisol, he had a low level of free cortisol typical of exogenous corticosteroid consumption, something confirmed by Lampre who indicated Horner has a TUE for such drugs. Not sure what you mean about Froome's levels not being as high as Horner's.

As for Horner's ABP being all over the place. Indeed it is but within the bounds of what is considered normal by the ABP panel. We don't know what Froome's ABP looks like as Sky lack transparency and won't release either that or his power data.

KWalker
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Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

Actually no one has publicly commented on Horner's bio passport from last year yet at least officially. From what I gather that takes a year or more to analyze so even if there was anything good or bad chances are we won't know until 2015. I know Veloclinic and Parisotto were very skeptical, but only time will tell.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

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Cuki
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Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:20 pm
Location: Vienna

by Cuki

As KW mentioned earlier in the week. Chickens coming home to roost.

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kbbpll
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:56 am

by kbbpll

Image

djm
Posts: 1403
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 12:19 pm
Location: Norway

by djm

Tragic news.. Annefleur Kalvenhaar dies after mtb race crash.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/08/ ... ash_342276

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AGW
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Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:11 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

by AGW

^Terrible news.

But re: USA Pro Challenge, congrats to Mr. Creed and his team.

Privateer
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:28 pm

by Privateer

Re. Horner's withdrawal. Horner just happened to have contract a condition that just happened to only be able to be treated with cortisone that just happens to be the perfect PED for final preparations before a grand tour, exactly when he was finalising his preparations for his grand tour title defence? Really?? I thought his win last year stank. Now I'm convinced of it.

I'm also unimpressed with the "new" UCI, thinking it's okay to give him a TUE for a known PED of choice in the lead up to a GT. His "bronchitis" was not exactly going to be life threatening. I and many others have had severe bronchitis and never been prescribed cortisone for it.

My suspicions are also supported by an interesting anecdote in Hincapie's autobiography about how the entire peloton was going to honour him by asking him to ride at the front on the first lap of the Champs Elysees in his last Tour... except for Horner who threatened to chase him down if he did. This was just after it had come out that Big George was speaking to USADA.

Good riddance to the last of the filthy generation.

spud
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am

by spud

Cortizone as the preferred PED? When it can be detected in any piss test and or blood test?
And Hincapie, the last bastion of integrity in the pro peloton?

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HammerTime2
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by HammerTime2

I didn't anticipate the TUE, but other than that ...
On October 25, 2013 in this thread, HammerTime2 wrote:Check out Horner's new book, hot off the press (October 1, 2013). Has some pretty racy topics.
http://velopress.com/books/reading-the-race/ wrote:Reading the Race
Bike Racing from Inside the Peloton
Jamie Smith with Chris Horner

In Reading the Race, race announcer Jamie Smith and veteran road captain Chris Horner team up to deliver a master class in bike racing strategies and tactics. Armed with strategies and tactics learned over thousands of races, cyclists and cycling fans will learn how to read a race—and see how to win it.

Bike racing is called a rolling chess game for a reason. Sure, a high pain threshold and a killer VO2max are helpful. But if you’re in it to win it, you need race smarts, and a little undetectable help. Starting breaks, forming alliances, microdoping, managing a lapped field, setting up a sprint—on every page, Horner and Smith reveal new secrets to faster racing and better results.

Smith and Horner dissect common mistakes, guiding riders with lessons learned from decades of racing experience. Reading the Race reveals the veteran’s eye view on:

Assembling the best possible team
Crafting strategies around the team, course, and rivals
Reacting instantly to common scenarios
Releasing bio passport data without understanding it
Making deals and combines
Breaks, echelons, blocking
Pack protocol and etiquette
Finishing in the prize money or on the podium
Winning the group ride


Whether you’re a new racer, an aspiring pro, a team manager, or even a roadside fan, Reading the Race will elevate your cycling IQ and hemoglobin for better racing.

Paperback with illustrations throughout.
7″ x 9″, 256 pp., $18.95, 9781937715106

KWalker
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Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

Privateer wrote:Re. Horner's withdrawal. Horner just happened to have contract a condition that just happened to only be able to be treated with cortisone that just happens to be the perfect PED for final preparations before a grand tour, exactly when he was finalising his preparations for his grand tour title defence? Really?? I thought his win last year stank. Now I'm convinced of it.

I'm also unimpressed with the "new" UCI, thinking it's okay to give him a TUE for a known PED of choice in the lead up to a GT. His "bronchitis" was not exactly going to be life threatening. I and many others have had severe bronchitis and never been prescribed cortisone for it.

My suspicions are also supported by an interesting anecdote in Hincapie's autobiography about how the entire peloton was going to honour him by asking him to ride at the front on the first lap of the Champs Elysees in his last Tour... except for Horner who threatened to chase him down if he did. This was just after it had come out that Big George was speaking to USADA.

Good riddance to the last of the filthy generation.


Apparently you don't know that cortisone and corticosteroids are different things. I am proscribed a bronchidialtor aka inhaler that is a corticosteroid. I have a TUE for it under USA Cycling because the dose is hundreds of time below what could be considered performance enhancing. I take it during allergy season and it is essential for being able to breathe enough to sleep well. I tend to get at least 3 sinus infections a year and almost every winter get one bronchial infection and I've been prescribed a corticosteroid inhaler every single time.

Cortisone used for performance enhancement is another thing altogether and racers are not allowed to race at all while undergoing cortisone treatments. This is not what Horner was denied the ability to race for.

Horner claims he chased him down because Big George was dirty and robbed him of some domestic results.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

by Weenie


Privateer
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:28 pm

by Privateer

I'll defer to your knowledge of pharmacology. It's absolutely not my area of expertise. Having said that, I wasn't confusing corticosteroids with cortisone. The team doctor is quoted on the Lampre website stating that Horner received cortisone:

The team’s head of medical staff, Dr Carlo Guardascione, explains the situation in more detail: “After the finish of Tour de France and after the Tour of Utah where the athlete was still suffering from bronchitis, Chris Horner underwent two examinations by two specialists for his bronchitis as he had been suffering since the beginning of the Tour de France as well as during the Tour of Utah, both specialists agreed that a treatment of cortisone by oral means was the only way to resolve this problem,


http://www.teamlampremerida.com/en/2014/08/conti-in-spagna-al-posto-di-horner/

My claim that cortisone was a PED of choice in preparing for big races is based on David Millar's description in his autobiography of how he and others used cortisone in conjunction with EPO.

As for the Hincapie incident, I have no love lost for him but I don't buy Horner's excuse for chasing him down. It sounds a lot more like Armstrong's chasing down of Simeoni for breaking the omerta. Hincapie was in the process of falling from grace so it wasn't exactly necessary for Horner to "punish" him.

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