Moderator: Moderator Team
dudemanppl wrote:So ATOC was fun today...
for computers that blow up, sorry, but too good not too. oh yea. get a new computer
http://37.media.tumblr.com/a0967bdc16e1 ... o2_500.gif
http://37.media.tumblr.com/888ac0079d7d ... o1_400.gif
and hilariously ryder doing the same thing last year in canada
https://24.media.tumblr.com/a17dd9f1e5b ... o1_400.gif
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=108931" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
It has the H2 geo......one step racier than a hybrid bike
Disc brakes would probably make it worse in slippery conditions.
If you dream of being famous - think of what birds do to statues.
AndreLM wrote:Frankly, I don't see a "conspiracy" to sell disk brakes. The demand is definitely there. The industry cannot simply ignore that.
The problem is the customer base in this case is typically ill-informed. They respond to marketing, heavily influenced by the advice of bike shop employees. "Demand" is highly malleable. So I still claim conspiracy.
A huge fraction of bikes sold are a poor match to optimizing customer utility.
A friend of mine was out to get a bike and settled on a Salsa Vanya, based in large part on my advice. This turned out to be a wonderful bike for his purposes. Had he gotten a Specialized Roubaix, a racing bike, which he'd been led toward, it would not have worked nearly as well for his diverse riding needs, which include pulling a bike trailer with his kids and riding to work carrying a small load.
Ironically the Salsa has disc brakes, which he doesn't like due to how they create more clutter at the mounting points for his fenders.
Still doesn't change the fact that disks modulate and stop better in all conditions. There has been no testing that has proven how much less aero they are and it should be no harder to make a wheelset weigh the same or lighter considering you are losing both brake calipers for a lighter unit, which offsets the rotor/bolt weight. With 90% of top end bikes already being UCI illegal in weight its not that big of a deal.
Typically it seems that those that are hating on disks haven't tried them, yet those who have are firm converts. Now that the thru axle QRs have been developed a bit I would expect all top end bikes to have disks in 2 years and the UCI to approve them within that timeframe. The claims on this forum about why there is no point to them are so overblown it is ridiculous.
ave wrote:No heli shot of Sagan's sprint... Yeez, the ToC's TV coverage is so bad... Also, constant picture breakups even on the heli shot, in perfect weather. Cali is home of the best action movies, but they can't shoot live action?? What's the problem??
Yeah, that was a bummer...
derek wrote:Giro commentators talking about carbon wheels and their shitty braking during the crash. I'm pretty sure we will see everyone using discs in 2017.
Just to be clear. The "amazing" discbrakes are limited by the friction between tire and road. It's pretty easy to block the wheels on wet roads. Even easier with discs. Yes, you improve stopping power, but it may be too much. I know that a hydraulic brake system makes way for a finer control of braking, but when someone crashes in front of you, your reflexes are faster that common sense. I would go as far as saying that alot of the riders in the big crash the other day, had a better chance of staying on the bike, without brakes.
I believe that the increased stopping power is a danger in some situations. It's something that haven't been mentioned so much compared to other things like:
- different sizes, making wheelchanges a nightmare.
- razor sharp rotors. They har not razor sharp. they are 1-2 mm thick on the edge. I fear a burnmark from a tire, or spokes from a smashed wheel, alot more.
- heatet discs when doing a longer descent.
The last two doesn't matter at all IMO, but it's annoying as h***, when companies goes on a marketing rampage, stuffing aerohelmets, frames and so on, down our throat, and starting all over, with something, maybe... maybe not, taking back those "precious" seconds. The disc-thing could end up being a goldmine for the major companies. And that is, imo their only motivation.
Yes you can brake faster, but is it necessary. Yes, if a car pulls out infront of you. But in a race, where everybody has the same brakes. The whole peloton will just go into a bend with a lot more speed, braking in the last moment.
None of the concerns you listed make any sense. Shimano and Sram already make standard sized rotors for mountainbikes and could do the same for road bikes and most likely will.
Rotors are not razor sharp. I've changed wheels fast in MTB races and managed to be fine. Just don't be stupid.
Aero- no one has actually demonstrated their drag increase so until someone does we are just armchair wind tunnels.
Looks- A nice bike is a nice bike. Just have to get used to the change.
Weight- A light disc caliper can be lighter than a road caliper. Rotors are pretty damn light and you can get light fixing bolts. Weight is not that much heavier and since they will use fairly small rotors I would expect them to drop even further. The Formula R1 brake WITH LEVER is 178g so without levers you are likely looking at 200-240g for the calipers. The formulas with rotors, hoses, and fixing bolts are 267g/wheel. Applying the same 50-78g weight discount for the lver weight the total weight for the entire brake system is 400-480g. Considering most bikes are well below the UCI weight limit this just means adding less lead weight to bikes. The real weight increase seems to be in the lever body and the caliper at the moment, but lighter options already exist and I am sure that the major manufacturers will push the products lighter once they're more established. While yes, this board is Weight Weenies and people care about weight, its solving a major problem with current designs (unpredictable performance in different weather, heat generation on carbon rims, poor modulation).
Don't get me wrong I love my 9000 brakes, but the change will be good. I'm still waiting to hear how many of you have actually tried them on the road? I did and as I mentioned many others I know train on their disc CX bikes almost year round and all of us noticed massive improvements in descending speed and control. Its not a marketing rampage, its a likely progression.
- Similar Topics
- Last post
- 40 Replies
- 9362 Views
Last post by Devastazione
Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:15 pm
- 3 Replies
- 423 Views
Last post by Zakalwe
Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:46 pm
- 13 Replies
- 669 Views
Last post by grahus
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:36 am
- 5 Replies
- 916 Views
Last post by Fiery
Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:20 pm
- 27 Replies
- 3132 Views
Last post by BearCrawl
Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:48 pm