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Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:55 pm
by petepeterson
And today another fine example of the sport ruining itself in attempt at survival:
Belkin pleads ignorance to knowledge of the former Liberty Seguros rider even though his links to Fuentes and Schumi were published while they reaped the benefits his wins at the Tour, San Sebastian. Now they throw him under the bus stating "His name is reported in too many cases" in an attempt to establish credibility. The UCI needs to get ahold of how this stuff is dealt with. It's just so amateur.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:39 pm
by Rick
djm wrote:I'd be quite reluctant to hire a guy like Horner if I were in charge of a team, ....

I don't know exactly what Horner's 'demands' are, but as far as his 'worth' goes I would think it is still extremely high. Remember that it is really all about generating publicity and interest for sponsors, which hopefully generates sales and business. Horner is obviously going to generate a lot of interest for at least another year, even if he wins nothing. Even if he never podiums, but comes in the top 10, and says something like "I couldn't race so well all these years if not for my Brand X Gizmo!", he is going to generate a lot of Brand X Gizmo sales!

But there is a certain harsh reality about the supply and demand balance, and everyone thinks they are "worth" a little more than they probably really are.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:29 pm
by lippythelion
Unfortunately there's a lot of riders who are without a team for next year for various reasons, so it's more likely that a team still looking to sign riders for next season will choose those who are younger and have less baggage than Horner (true or not) to bring with them. Also, the young riders at Pro Continental level will be banging on World Tour managers' doors if the 2013 season has been a success for them.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:59 pm
by ultyguy
petepeterson- well said!

Lulu is class, clean or juiced.

Edit- pro cycling, the ultimate zombie sport where everyone walks around with secrets and skeletons. I naively hope TRC can help stop this stupid cycle.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:44 am
by HammerTime2
stella-azzurra wrote:Horner's twitter rant for winning a GT but not finding a team for next year.

9.37pm Pacific Daylight Time: 15 years old and up @ 4:30am before school starts to train while dreaming of winning a grand tour. I did that!

9.44pm PDT Riding your bike to work so that you can train for hours in the dark after works done. I did that!

9.53pm PDT Hitching a ride across the country for months w/no money (almost I had 400+-) to race. I did that!

9.58pm PDT Sleeping in hotels,host family houses,cars,and park benches to get to the races. I did that!

10.02pm PDT Pro teams won't give you chance, so you buy your own license and race as an independent. I did that!

10.09pm PDT Race pro for years w/out pay just hoping to make enough winnings to pay rent. I did that!

10.17pm PDT Win everything in the US, pass on the big pay check, go to Europe for minimum pay. #ididthat!

10.27pm PDT Live in Europe in a small apartment W/no car,computer,phone,TV, only a walk for company. #ididthat!

10.28pm PDT Oops. Only a Walkman for company. #ididthat!

10.33pm PDT Take a step back hoping to go forward again. #ididthat!

10.39pm PDT Winning again but told I'm to old to go back to Europe a second time but keep fighting anyways. #ididthat!

10.45pm PDT Sell everything I own for a second chance at a grand tour, fly over with a 140bucks in my pocket. #ididthat!

10.54pm PDT Start going up the ladder with each year passing while never getting that leader respect and belief. #ididthat!

11.00pm PDT Up @6am w/3kids so I can drop them off @school before I go train all day for the Grand tours. #ididthat!

11.03pm PDT Finding that belief, given the leadership, delivering on it. #ididthat!

11.13pm PDT Moving up the ladder w/that continued belief, big sponsors on board now. #ididthat!

11.18pm PDT Whole season disappearing fast but still working hard to make it to those grand tours. #ididthat!

11.21pm PDT Amazing help and belief from all my family, friends, and fans to get back there. #ididthat!

11.32pm PDT Works paid off, forms back, but by now some have lost belief. #ididthat!

11.40pm PDT So much stress & work 4another start at a dream that began many years ago. #ididthat!

11.43pm PDT A life time of work and a stage/jersey arrive and disappear over night.

11.51pm PDT 100% is given and second time it happens, only to pass just as fast but
belief is returning. #ididthat!

12.04am PDT The jersey returned only this time for life, the stories to tell before & during it are epic & life time. #ididthat

12.08am PDT Yes it was worth it and yes the dream continues... With or without the belief. #ididthat!
O.k. so Horner doesn't have a contract yet.

Why not?
1) He's too old to expect much out of him in the future, despite last month's grand tour win
2) He wants more pay than he's worth
2) Doping suspicions (high "Lance" factor)

1) Old guys constitute a big demographic for high end (i.e., expensive) cycling expenditures
2) Old guys identify with Horner, the old guy who can still do it (or at minimum, next season, the old guy who just did it last year)
3) There is a new head of the UCI, who's raring and ready to shake things up.

The UCI implements a new rule, effective immediately. Anything goes for riders 40 and older - they are free to dope at will. This should help them be very competitive with the younger riders who aren't allowed to dope (and in reality, who at best can micro-dope if they hope to pass the tests). If you thought Horner was good this year, wait 'til next year when he can dope to the gills, while the likes of Froome and Quintana will still have to be very judicious in any doping. The big bike and component manufacturers will get behind this because it should make their sales go through the roof. Now of course, there is room for some fine tuning, for instance whether 40 is the right cutoff, perhaps limited doping (homologous transfusions, but no EPO, for instance) should be allowed for 35+, and then balls to the walls anything goes doping at 40 - anyhow, I trust Mr. Cookson is hard at work studying and fine tuning this right now.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:55 am
by HillRPete
Wondering how much dough Armstrong makes from the "Lie" movie. Hard to believe he signed the contract with the film maker back then without a cut.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:52 pm
by stella-azzurra
Film out in November

In 2009 documentary filmmaker Alex Gibney set out make a film about Lance Armstrong's return to professional cycling. Gibney’s project was shelved in the wake of the doping scandal that erupted in the months and years that followed. But it's now been turned into The Armstrong Lie, a two hour film that will premiere in the USA on November 8.

"The Armstrong Lie" ... b-8lQ#t=20 ... ie-trailer

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:58 pm
by stella-azzurra
djm wrote:I'd be quite reluctant to hire a guy like Horner if I were in charge of a team, in spite of him winning the tour of Spain. Seemingly it is not a problem for him to find an employer, as he points out in a recent Velonews interview, the problem is finding one that will meet his demands. Apparently he would like to be paid very well and wants a sign-on-fee and the ability to stay in the US with his family.

What happens if he suffers an injury that any 25-year old would recover from but might be troublesome for a 42-year old? Also he's pretty much overdue for retirement any way. There's a fairly big risk with employing him and most likely Horner will have to adjust his demands unless there is a team that really needs him and his points. It seems like the hunt for points this year is far less aggressive than it has been in the past.

Horner should retire on a high note like this and come back as a DS, sports commentator or some sort of coach and endorse products.
Some don't know when to quit and it gets them in trouble later on like some athletes we know.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:43 pm
by stella-azzurra
Chris Horner’s hunt for a new team continues after Europcar boss Jean-René Bernaudeau revealed that he turned down an approach by the American rider and his representatives “I don’t work with riders' agents,” Bernaudeau told “I don’t talk with them but they don’t stop offering me their riders. They even offered me Chris Horner for €750.000 per year!”

In 2014 the Schleck brothers will be reunited. “We have seen that splitting them up is not a good idea. If Frank and Andy are together their potential is higher. With Frank, Andy keeps his cool which is the key to his performance. Next season will be crucial to Andy. It’s either black or white now,” Guercilena told Velochrono. ... 0-per-year

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:42 pm
by Monkeyboy3333
Schlecks have to be old news now surely?! Andy has had more 'potential' column inches than anyone I reckon.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:29 pm
by tymon_tm
i can't understand how someone could hire two Schlecks over e.g. Horner :noidea:

surely he has more marketing value, more potential to actually win something, isn't officially a doper, plus he strikes me as a really down-to-earth guy. he's probably cheaper than those two primadonnas too

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:18 pm
by jmilliron
stella-azzurra wrote:Horner should retire on a high note like this and come back as a DS, sports commentator or some sort of coach and endorse products.

Agree but think it's pretty clear the dude loves racing bikes.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:36 pm
by stella-azzurra
Yes true, but mind over body won't work at some point. So best thing to do get on a pro-cycling team as a coach, DS, mentor, whatever or create one. Didn't ol' Vaughters start that way?

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:19 pm
by petepeterson
Horner has said it in no uncertain terms that he likes racing and training and is going to keep doing it. Sure it leaves a nice memory to go out on top but he's not the type that would care about leaving in such dramatic fashion.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:54 am
by SalsaLover
I remember an interview with Horner around end of 2010 where he defended 100% the purity and cleanliness of LA

Since then I simply can't believe on anything the guy says