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Kermithimself
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by Kermithimself

MattSoutherden wrote:Um-wat?

He was 29 seconds faster than Quintana up Ventoux, which equates to just under 1% for the climb. Overall in the tour, he is 0.1% ahead of Mollema in total GC time.

I think it was the Ax3 domaine stage he commented on. I wouldn't consider Quintana a GC contender compared to Contador, Kreuziger, Fuglsang etc.
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Straff
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by Straff

ultyguy wrote:'knowing' leads to targeted testing which has come on a bit. It's a burden of proof issue. Sky need to release the files.


Last time I looked burden of proof fell upon the prosecution.
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Danza
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by Danza

RE: Froome after the finish

I didn't see any news about the Oxygen, but if you watch the podium broadcast it is pretty obvious he is walking gingerly/weakly.

Still, I struggle to not doubt his performance. At its best I can't call it anything other than suspicious.

I believe the top levels of sport (not just cycling) to be decided on very small margins, and when you get such a large disparity in performance it must be attributed to something. I am not sure some magical conglomeration of genetics, training, preparation, and race circumstances are capable of creating the disparity. It is also strange to me that Brailsford's comments regarding non-doped performances matching doped performances was investigated by someone much more knowledgeable than me and found to be plausible in 10-15 years....and then those performances are matched 10 DAYS later.

Oh well, at least stage 13 was interesting.

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LouisN
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by LouisN

IMO Sky is doing the same as US Postal some 15-20 years ago. And I mean the sports cientific team.
They target one main thing : The Tour the France yellow jersey. The sponsor is financing.
Their approach is somewhat different to my eyes in that way. They recruited some WC pursuit riders, some altitude born riders ;), etc, etc. Probably because they're values were already exceptionnal. They worked on improving everything they could improve "legally", instead of trying to improve the oxygen transport of some gifted rider (traditionnal way). Obviously bringing the weights down to incredible low weights is what's showing. Simple math: an already very high W/kg FTP or MAP will become outrageously high if the rider loses some 12-13 kg as stated. After that, well, Iguess it's the beet juice... :lol: !!!

Nonetheless, that makes for a poor spectacle at the TDF IMHO. Long live the Good Old Classics !!


Louis :)

nathanong87
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by nathanong87

djconnel wrote:What if Sky's using legal performance enhancement (something not yet illegal)? Like Jacque Anquetil's alleged blood transfusions?


this.

i am just some amateur wannabe racer on the internet, but what if sky is just using something that isn't a banned substance and is just more clever than other teams.

i view this similar to f1 or any other technical sport where there are rules and guidelines, but teams (usually with money) can exploit the guidelines...which i do not think is cheating. I mean I was on a formula sae team in college and you look at what the rules say, and make sure you are not breaking the rules while taking things to the limit. And different than lets say 'doping (banned substance) UP to the guideline' ....

just like beet juice or whatever people are talking about now, but what if it's something totally obscure. I dunno. Whatever it is i'd like to believe that froome and sky is 'clean', surely testing is good enough to catch a rider using EPO or something 'well known'.

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Clubagreenie
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by Clubagreenie

Beet Juice , Watermelon diet ,believes in himself , born at altitude , snake oil .... the elixir from the fountain of youth , tooth fairies and dare I say .... Father XMAS , Catholic Priests don't tamp with kids ?

I can see Oprah getting a call , break out the popcorn and tissues
Last edited by Clubagreenie on Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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2012 RIDLEY HELIUM being built up ....

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HammerTime2
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by HammerTime2

July 15 Wall Street Journal Article: The Awkwardness of the Tour de France wrote:Froome is adamant he is racing clean—"I certainly know that the results I'm getting, they're not going to be stripped 10, 20 years down the line," he said earlier in the Tour
O.k., but how about being stripped within the next year or two?

Danza
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Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:41 pm

by Danza

I think the flaw in thinking that Sky may have found some new "legal" pharmaceutical aid is that the wording of the WADA guidelines (IIRC) bans drugs which perform in a certain way, even if not specifically banning that substance.

Downside is this creates a false grey area where you can take these (often hyper-expensive) designer drugs for the period of time before a reliable test is available, and before the less financially able teams are a in a position to use them.

But what do I know.

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trychle
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by trychle


HUMP DIESEL
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by HUMP DIESEL

My question is "Why can there not be extraordinary human beings?" Why can there not be per a generation a guy who is just better? Why does everyone have to get a trophy, or get to play or get to participate. Why do we do this? Did anyone feel that Michael Jordan was doping during his time with the Bulls? He was an extraordinary athlete, a showman who made his opponents look sub-par, but we loved him, why is it that in cycling you cannot have a person who is just better?

We are our own cancer, we are eating ourselves from the inside out, destroying our own sport through speculation and doubt. We know Merckx used steroids, but we still put him on high, why do we do the new generation the way we do?

HUMP
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nathanong87
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by nathanong87

HUMP DIESEL wrote:My question is "Why can there not be extraordinary human beings?" Why can there not be per a generation a guy who is just better? Why does everyone have to get a trophy, or get to play or get to participate. Why do we do this? Did anyone feel that Michael Jordan was doping during his time with the Bulls? He was an extraordinary athlete, a showman who made his opponents look sub-par, but we loved him, why is it that in cycling you cannot have a person who is just better?

We are our own cancer, we are eating ourselves from the inside out, destroying our own sport through speculation and doubt. We know Merckx used steroids, but we still put him on high, why do we do the new generation the way we do?

HUMP


because u can't take a magic pill that will allow you to put a ball into a net any better... or kick a ball to the upper 90 of a goal.

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

Tapeworm wrote:Strange, I am sure a little while ago people were calling for the banning of power meters and now it's "release the files". Either everyone has power meters and submits the files to WADA/UCI or it stays the way it is and they can just keep the files to themselves.


Hey Tapeworm, thought I would respond to this - and this is by no means disrespecting the quality of your posts, of which I think you provide excellent ones particularly in regards to training topics.

I am one of "those people" that were calling for the banning of live power-meter headunit-readouts during the race. NOT the banning of the power meter itself, just the ability of the rider (or DS) to read the numbers live during the race. That's a pretty big difference between "banning power meters" and what I actually stated. You are welcome to go back through this very thread and see what was stated.
Will recording of data still be possible? Yes: see track regulations, for example.
Will release of power data still be possible? Yes.
Do I still want the live reading (not recording) of power-meter data to be banned? Yes.

Thanks. :thumbup:
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MikeyT
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by MikeyT

Prend, apologies for my ignorance, what would we hope to gain by limiting the use or the availability of data produced by a power meter?

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

The idea is to avoid racing-by-numbers.
Someone against this idea could state "We don't even look at the number anyway! We don't race by numbers!"
... the reply: "So then it won't make a difference? Good. So let's just not make the live data available then, since it won't make a difference. You'll still be able to record the data for analysis & training purposes, but only be able to see it after the race."
"But, but..."

The logic behind this concept is the same as it is used for the track rule: to avoid riders measuring their efforts with live power feedback as a means for competitive advantage.





Aside from all the doping accusations flying about, we do have positive news (pun intended) - Europcar signs on for two more years.
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