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Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:27 am
by Rob81
@velofreak
her W/Kg climbing numbers (and at Giro women they have a fairly number of climbs aka Mortirolo "easy" side, Stelvio even if she wasn't there that year) could easily embarass a good % of healty full commmitted/time involved men (u23 and even some pro); so it's not a comparison between her and some posers
Plus these numbers https://twitter.com/rebecca_slack/status/291280025230135296

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:51 am
by pastronef
Alex Rasmussen got a message from Uci

https://twitter.com/AlexRazi/status/299 ... 85/photo/1

:noidea:

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:51 am
by Weenie

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:12 pm
by ave
>female cycling is very low level.
Nah, I don't think so.
They're slower than men, but they are running slower too.
There are a few interesting stories, like some girl with a day job picked up cycling as a hobby and a year later was a successful pro, so that is true, that if cycling was a more popular sport for women some of those winning now would end up as domestiques.
But just like in men's world, you can't really say someone is not good if he is only a domestique.

But the junior level women, now that is something else. 2 years ago the british girl was attacking off the front a few km before the finish, she was realed in and then promptly won the sprint.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:57 pm
by Kasparz
Velofreak wrote:Let's please not forget that in female cycling, the level is very low, as the number of women in competition is too low compared to man. Therefore such a powerful woman is not suspicious. Maybe if we had the same percentage of females racing as we have in man, Vos would be just an average professional racer. But because there are so few, she is brilliant. No need for doping.If I´m a woman in a suitable age (23-25), I can start cycling tomorrow and in a couple years i can be regional champion, or similar. And you can do podium in cross country races just finishing those competitions. Easily. For man it's not that easy, therefore, peaking the whole season is more suspicious. not in female racing though.

It's sad because it's true.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:55 pm
by Geoff
You can't really compare men and women based upon physicality. I am 'getting on', but can still put the hurt on an Olympic medallist! It is a fact that women do not produce watts like men do.

It is also true that the range of experience of different athletes in women's sport is 'broader' then in men's sport. This is not just in cycling, but in many 'traditionally' male sports. Check-out hockey. Canada and the US are so dominant that their success may be jeopardizing their own Olympic inclusion.

Over time, the playing field will become more level. In the interim, Vos is sure fabulous to watch!

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:57 pm
by KWalker
Rob81 wrote:@velofreak
her W/Kg climbing numbers (and at Giro women they have a fairly number of climbs aka Mortirolo "easy" side, Stelvio even if she wasn't there that year) could easily embarass a good % of healty full commmitted/time involved men (u23 and even some pro); so it's not a comparison between her and some posers
Plus these numbers https://twitter.com/rebecca_slack/status/291280025230135296

That's 5 minute power and not that crazy. For a 160lb male that would be 482, which is something a top level male can hold for quite a long while. IIRC Wiggins' threshold is around 450-460 for a full hour, so using normal percentages that would put his 5 min at 550 or so. I remember seeing his power zones in a chart format somewhere, but can't find the image. 6.63 for an hour would be impressive, but a lot of category 1 domestic riders could probably hit that for 5 not too hard.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:12 pm
by Rob81
not crazy if you compare to Wiggins (before the Tour Cp30' 441W, 6,3W/Kg with the doubt of the inflated value due to osymetric+srm; source tv doc "A year in yellow")
but how many "Vos is weak" can sustain that power?
She's just at the top of the bottom chart (which for women is just a 15% reduction to men numbers, so even more theoretical).
and no a cp5' of ~6.6W/kg for men is typically slighlty higher than cat.1 (which is a nomenclature used in USA only, btw) if you consider only this single number and not the full power profile.
Her FTP could be around 5,5W/kg (deduced from Vo2max power), which still in clean(er) times is not so "bad" at all...
Image

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:30 pm
by ave
>That's 5 minute power and not that crazy.
Not crazy for a man. So, now we now that Vos would get dropped from the men's Tour peleton. And what does it tell us?? F*** all.

Women are inherently weaker, different muscle fibers perhaps, higher fat percentages, etc. It's quite obvious really.
Look at running. Surely one can't say that women's athletics' "level is very low"... 5000meters' men's & women's WR differ by about 13%, more than 90seconds. (maybe it's even possible to calcualte power difference from running times?)

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:42 pm
by Kasparz
jeez, guys, nobody is saying Vos is weak. She is a complete engine!
The sadness in womens cycling and womens sport in general is that level is very low and women that are natural talents and committed to the sport are shoulders above their opponents. Is is true that a reasonably fit female can start cycling and turn pro or reach pro level fitness in a year. In men cycling that would be not possible even for the most nature gifted.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:46 pm
by ave
Rob81,
Are you sure about this nice table? I could be (just) a cat2 based on this, which I find a bit surprising.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:50 pm
by Kasparz
ave wrote:Rob81,
Are you sure about this nice table? I could be (just) a cat2 based on this, which I find a bit surprising.

Yes, you could. Do you believe in yourself, that is the question?

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:55 pm
by ave
>Is is true that a reasonably fit female can start cycling and turn pro or reach pro level fitness in a year.
Just realized that here's one girl I know who turned "pro" for this year, I'll follow on her results in the months to come.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:00 pm
by ave
Kasparz wrote:Yes, you could. Do you believe in yourself, that is the question?

I do race, and I do get dropped with these numbers. Which -if this table is correct- means that the general level of racing here is not that bad after all. This is what I find suprising. Preconceptions, I guess.

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:09 pm
by stella-azzurra
pastronef wrote:Alex Rasmussen got a message from Uci

https://twitter.com/AlexRazi/status/299 ... 85/photo/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:noidea:


Looks like he sent it to himself :lol: :lol:

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:09 pm
by Weenie

Re: "PRO" Cycling Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:09 pm
by pastronef
which Cofidis rider lives and trains in Gerona? I saw one today, yellow mavic helmet included.
by the way, today was a good day for sailing, not riding. north wind blowing strong