The stupidest thing you've heard at a bike shop...

[GT56]

shimano now offers an 11 s ultegra cassette starting with a 14 and all the way through to 28

that's all a tourist with a 50-34 crankset needs

[tymon_tm]

reminded me of my last bike purchase that went south - last year I was hunting for a new bike and came across this nice Felt at my LBS (or was that a Focus, can't tell between the two). it had a 50x34 cranks and a 12- cassette.

me: I like that bike, but I'm gonna need to have those chainrings and cassette swapped
salesguy: ???
me: I ride 52/39 and a 11-cassette. I don't think that's a problem?
salesguy: but this bike comes with, you know, this crankset and a matching cassette, I'm not sure they can change it, let me call them...
me:...erm...but...
salesguy: (picking the phone and calling the distributor) yeah, sure, I'll tell him. (hangs up) sorry, they don't come with any different drivetrain options
me: I'm aware (you stupid ignorant jerk), but! you can change it, in you shop. you sell shimano, right? you can swap the cassette and chainrings no problem..
salesguy: well we can sell you a different crankset...
me:.. I don't need an entire crankset! just the chainrings...
salesguy:..yeah we can sell you those, and the cassette, probably at some discount..
me: ..so despite the fact I'm willing to spend few thousand euro for a bike, you can't swap a brand new cassette for another one lying on your shelve, and unscrew four bolts to, again, change the stock chainrings for a pair of different ones, that I need, and that you can order within 24 hours from shimano? you won't do that?
salesguy: no, sorry.
me: congratulations, you just lost a couple hundret euro of profit

.. and I didn't even get to mention I'd like a different wheelset too.. and the tires

[wingguy]

To be fair -

A) WTF new bike were you looking at last year that had a 12-XY cassette on it? I haven't seen one of those as stock for freakin' years!

B) An off a bike 12-XY cassette is not worth the same as a boxed 11-XY cassette. It'd probably end up being Ebayed for lower than trade price. So while (depending on the rest of the deal) they should probably be willing to swap it for you, do not kid yourself into thinking it's like for like or that it doesn't impact the bottom line in any way because it does. It costs money to make that swap.

[tymon_tm]

maybe it had 13-, but it sure as hell wasn't an 11-. it looked really huge, esp for someone who runs 11-23 most of the time. besides, how can we even compare the difference in cassette prices (should there be any, I recall from my time at bike shop, 10 years ago, there was one price for all but perhaps junior 14- cassettes) with the price of a whole bike (and most importantly - the amount of money I'd spend there had I become their customer).

[glam2deaf]

B) An off a bike 12-XY cassette is not worth the same as a boxed 11-XY cassette. It'd probably end up being Ebayed for lower than trade price. So while (depending on the rest of the deal) they should probably be willing to swap it for you, do not kid yourself into thinking it's like for like or that it doesn't impact the bottom line in any way because it does. It costs money to make that swap.

Nail on the head here. 'swapping' isn't as simple as it would seem.

[wingguy]

maybe it had 13-, but it sure as hell wasn't an 11-. it looked really huge, esp for someone who runs 11-23 most of the time.

You didn't check? Ok, I'm going to say you're definitely wrong, it was definitely an 11. Maybe an 11-28, maybe even an 11-32, but I bet it started with 11.

besides, how can we even compare the difference in cassette prices (should there be any, I recall from my time at bike shop, 10 years ago, there was one price for all but perhaps junior 14- cassettes) with the price of a whole bike (and most importantly - the amount of money I'd spend there had I become their customer).

Yes, that's definitely a consideration. The bike market is competitive and shops will almost always have to give away some of their headline margin in discounts, parts, finance etc to get a sale. But swapping a cassette (especially on the remote offchance that it was something as absolutely useless as a 12- cassette) is them giving away part of their margin. It doesn't matter what the retail vs retail price is because you will not sell an unboxed, undesirably ratioed cassette for retail price. It is only worth what you can realistically sell it for. Now, if that was the only thing you asked for on an otherwise retail price bike with no part-exchange or 0% financing then sure, they're idiots. However, if there was more going on and the shop guy has already been watching the margin on the bike shrink and shrink and shrink then you may have just put on the straw that broke the camel's back.


I'll give you points for the shop guy phoning the distributor about it, that's pretty dumb. I'll take away those points for suggesting he swap the chainrings only because it's easier though. Do you know how expensive shimano chainrings are? Yeah, he's better off swapping the whole crank if he's going to do it.

[tymon_tm]

honestly, I've no idea how much chainrings cost alone, I can only imagine somewhere around 30% of an entire crankset price, and yes, a bike shop that actually sells stuff to roadies and has two or three service joints across the town (not to mention being close with one local club the owner helped putting together) shouldn't have issues selling an ultegra cassette or chainrings (probably the most popular groupset here, and they do get worned out don;t they).

I have only brief experience working at a bike shop, not even a year, but such bold demands as mine (we didn't even talk price mind you) were rather dealt with with a smile on our faces. and - to show you some perspective - I'm talking times where shops didn;t stock road bikes or parts, almost at all. this has changed a lot in the recent decade, more shops, more stuff, more and more fancy bikes on the roads. so it's either their plates are full, or they're idiots. it's one thing to expect a product at a wholesale price and a service for free, it's another to express a reasonable expectation and get hit with a definite NO. BECAUSE. it's no wonder people like me choose online shops and build bike ourselves, if so often there;s no room to tweak a (expensive) bike that you intend to spend so much time on. shops tend to forget components on new bikes are new, and it's better off for both sides to swap them - change a saddle, put a longer stem, different tyres, than make customers look for other shops or start buying parts online.

dealing with bike shops recently makes me wanna cry how bad they are at meeting my needs, and I'm seriously thinking about opening my own joint.. but that's another story

[wingguy]

honestly, I've no idea how much chainrings cost alone, I can only imagine somewhere around 30% of an entire crankset price,

Try up to 70% for ultegra. Seriously

And (again, if it really was that size) who do you know that wants a cassette that starts with 12? When is that guy going to breeze in through the door, the 23rd of never?

shops tend to forget components on new bikes are new, and it's better off for both sides to swap them - change a saddle, put a longer stem, different tyres, than make customers look for other shops or start buying parts online.

New? It hasn't got a box. It hasn't got a manual. It's got grease on it. You've just taken that off a bike, how much discount are you going to give me for it? Why do I want to buy that saddle? You've got a whole pile of them there - they must be rubbish if people keep swapping them for others so how cheap are you going to do it for me? Tyres? Those ones say Giant on it and my bikes a Trek, anyway everyone says OE tyres are crap and I can get GP4ks for only £5 more.

dealing with bike shops recently makes me wanna cry how bad they are at meeting my needs, and I'm seriously thinking about opening my own joint..

Just be aware that you're criticizing their meeting of your needs when you have absolutely no clue about their costs to do so. And when you open the doors on your own... Rude awakening my friend, rude awakening

[Dodger747]

And (again, if it really was that size) who do you know that wants a cassette that starts with 12? When is that guy going to breeze in through the door, the 23rd of never?

I always buy those - gives me a 12-27 for climbing in the mountains...

In fact it's a stock Campag option...

http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-chorus ... h-upwards/

[fromtrektocolnago]

Gosh, all those components are at least one generation out of date. You should buy a new bike.

[wingguy]

I always buy those - gives me a 12-27 for climbing in the mountains...

In fact it's a stock Campag option...

Yeah, I know they exist. I also know that wanting one makes you an incredibly uncommon person these days. Given the choice between a 12-27 and an 11-27 damn near everyone will take option 2.

[plpete]

The cassette option kind of depends on your crank. If I'm running a compact, sure I'll take a 11-xx cassette. I run standard size crank and prefer a 12-xx cassette in order to gain a closer ratio gear in the middle, such as a 16t cog that's often missing. Many cassettes of 15t, 17t. Also, unless there are loads of fast descends, how often are you in 53x11 for extended periods of time?

[Zitter]

Tymon, you buy the bike and then make the swaps yourself and sell off the take-offs. Expecting a shop to bear that cost for you is ridiculous; they're hardly making any money on the bike in the first place. Even if it is a brand new takeoff, they would be lucky to get their cost back on it since it's technically used and out of packaging, so then they give up all the margin on the parts they just swapped out for you. That's how bike shops go out of business.

I work at a large online retailer and even we don't do swaps like that.

[wingguy]

Plpete; All that makes perfect sense and is completely acceptable for specific applications. Doesn't remotely change the facts about relative popularity of 11- vs 12- in todays retail market.

(Although for me, high speed descents are more than reason enough )

[Calnago]

Agree with @Pipete... It depends on a few things. Crank choice being one, but the type of riding you're doing as well. Are you going to be in a group all day? Where do you want that skipping cog to start? Pipete likes the 16, many do. I would often give up an 11 tooth cog in favor of closer ratios in the middle, especially in fast paced group rides.