Is weightweenies becoming more elitist?

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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warthog101
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by warthog101

Berzin1 wrote:
warthog101 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:39 am
icantaffordcycling wrote:I like garage door photos better than whatever that is.
What about metal suburbia fencing?
How about a photo of a bike in front of a crack house? Or is that too elitist?
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robbosmans
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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

elitism? sure, some folks here have been down that road for a long time, but other than that - i'd say to the contrary. more and more users come because it's the ultimate bike forum for those seeking knowledge and first hand opinions. luckily it's not "fun" enough to attract broader audience, hence a generally positive tone and mostly kind people.

re: background. +1 on solid white garage doors. some also "accidentally" show a piece of their bimmer/911, but that's straight up nouveauriche. I have neither (white garage doors or a fancy car), maybe that's why I've never posted any of my bikes here...? :noidea:
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

KB
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by KB

tymon_tm wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:52 pm
elitism? sure, some folks here have been down that road for a long time, ... i'd say to the contrary. more and more users come because it's the ultimate bike forum for those seeking knowledge and first hand opinions. ...
Agree with that. I've been on here for 17 years. In that time I think that behaviour has improved. From my perspective the 'homemade' stuff has decreased, but I think industry out there has been cognisant of this site and i've picked up mags that often refer to WW which is the ultimate form of flattery.

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otoman
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by otoman

This place has always been elitist in a way. Just different over the years in the ways spelled out above. The 12 lb wonder bike of yore was a great project to behold, but elitist in its own right as we trundled around on our 18 lb beaters. Ya gotta have a little spark and inspiration in life.

The forum has certainly become more staid and dowdy with the heavy hands of the mods ensuring the graying of the members continues. While the Hambini aero wheel test debacle was a bit of a dumpster fire, it was NOT elitist and there actually was some pretty actionable info to come out of it. I don’t want to give too much credit, but after the big wheel companies got exposed on two very high end forums (WW and Slowtwitch) the price of high end wheels dropped dramatically.... fallacy of causation perhaps but I have to think that hundreds of well-off cyclists (including me) paused their purchase of stupid expensive wheels as a result of the info garnered from a testing protocol that was anything but elitist. So the mods continue to do their level best to thump out any give and take, ensuring WW is a regency era tea party with a harpsichord trilling in the background when occasionally what we need is a barroom dustup that actually settles some disputes.
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

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Kurt1980
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by Kurt1980

Re: the above.

I agree that open discourse is necessary to separate out the fact from fiction, and it seems there's been a lot of fiction when it comes to weight and performance of various bike components. If there is some posturing and squaring up in the process, that's probably OK.

But in reading some of those threads it's obvious the discussion became unproductive and pivoted on personal insults. The mods rightly stepped in.

Now, I'm not sure whether Hambini, for instance, should have been banned permanently, he's a very informative poster. That may have been too heavy handed (unless he consistently flouted the rules in the face of warnings). Broadly, the mods have to use their "power" judiciously.

That said, the mods principle role is to keep the discussion within some sort of loose boundaries, and if most people can accept that, is too much to ask the iconoclasts the same?

Butcher
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by Butcher

I do not care how informative a poster is, if they cannot deliver their message in a polite informative way. AFAIC, Hambini should just be banned permanently everywhere.

Flasher
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by Flasher

Butcher wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:03 pm
Hambini should just be banned permanently everywhere.
Very harsh, better colourful than bland :thumbup:

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

Elitist? Maybe some posters are. It's a toxic environment but less toxic than most other cycling forums.
Some problems are that too much emphasis is put on bikes lightness and 'aeroness' and on bike form not function, very easy to be out of fashion and sneered at. You could easily go to a shop and buy a new 2nd tier Tarmac or TCR which is all you ever need or want, but post a picture of it, then some people would be hating on the steerer height or lack of Italian carbon fiber.

Some people also 'police' their bike decisions and hunt for or troll the opinions of others. Fans of one manufacturer of a component may attack others that point out commonly reported flaws as to defend their investment from criticism and fail to see things objectively. Or say nonsense like 'disk brakes don't need maintenance' and actually try to defend this position.

Also talk of rider fitness, weight and nutrition is hugely under represented, compared with discussing a few grams from some new expensive component. Also all talk of technique is systematically shut down. Which is weird as in MTB, and all motorcycling people debate it intensely and come to a consensus. People seem to swoon over good descending skills shown by riders like Alaphilippe or Nibali, but seem to have no desire to improve their skills or discuss them.

warthog101
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by warthog101

^^Seems like a fairly objective summary, from what I've read.

Why was Hambini banned?
That seems a loss.
I don't agree with all his stuff but would like to read it and make my own decision.

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otoman
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by otoman

Excellent points Lewn777
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

I forgot one thing, the main forum blight:
These are the newbie wannabies. They come from a highly narcissistic snowflake direction, and feel that it's a god-given right to attack 'wrongness'. I hope they are genuinely interested in bikes, and not purely a troll kind of internet cancer.

The problem with these people is that they seem so desperate to 'be an expert', but they know very little, and almost nothing from personal experience, as they have practically zero. To compensate they do extensive reading, and try to build a high post count. They read out-of date material and hold it as gospel and gravitate to their preferred favorite experts.

The problem then comes with anything that is then said which could be merely to engage polite debate, which could be something a tad controversial. For them the slightest differentiation from their preferred viewpoint is then a heresy and even the smallest deviation from dogma is blood in the water. They then go in with full child-like guns blazing with a full shark-attack attempting to tear apart their victim as truth must be defended at all costs.

The sad truth is a real expert would be interested as why you might have a differing opinion, they may change their perspective when given your viewpoint, you may concede you were wrong, or what usually happens is you were both right, from your own understanding of the question. The internet troll noob could never manage this, for them everything is purely black and white.

In truth some of the elitist views are actually expressed by people with barely a clue, and simply followers of an accepted fashion, the more 'sure' they are of what they are saying, the less they know and the thinner their veneer. They hide behind the anonymity of an internet forum to pretend to be something bigger than they are. A true expert would understand the vastness of what they don't know.

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micky
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by micky

warthog101 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:27 pm
^^Seems like a fairly objective summary, from what I've read.

Why was Hambini banned?
That seems a loss.
I don't agree with all his stuff but would like to read it and make my own decision.
Read the last post of Lewn777 which I quote "the slightest differentiation from their preferred viewpoint is then a heresy and even the smallest deviation from dogma is blood in the water. They then go in with full child-like guns blazing with a full shark-attack attempting to tear apart their victim as truth must be defended at all costs."

I don't know the gentleman personally but by what I understood he gathered a lot of his views counts on youtube by using a trash talking.
In a forum when you're confronting to other people it doesn't work that way as there's nothing constructive, even if you're right.

As for "that seems a loss".
Over the years many forum members have been banned and very often it looked like a loss but they couldn't control they anger for a reason or another.
So no, it's not really a loss because luckily there's always some contribution going on from new people sooner or later.

warthog101
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by warthog101


micky wrote:
warthog101 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:27 pm
^^Seems like a fairly objective summary, from what I've read.

Why was Hambini banned?
That seems a loss.
I don't agree with all his stuff but would like to read it and make my own decision.
Read the last post of Lewn777 which I quote "the slightest differentiation from their preferred viewpoint is then a heresy and even the smallest deviation from dogma is blood in the water. They then go in with full child-like guns blazing with a full shark-attack attempting to tear apart their victim as truth must be defended at all costs."

I don't know the gentleman personally but by what I understood he gathered a lot of his views counts on youtube by using a trash talking.
In a forum when you're confronting to other people it doesn't work that way as there's nothing constructive, even if you're right.

As for "that seems a loss".
Over the years many forum members have been banned and very often it looked like a loss but they couldn't control they anger for a reason or another.
So no, it's not really a loss because luckily there's always some contribution going on from new people sooner or later.
From what I have seen of Hambini that section of Lewn's post doesn't seem applicable.
Generally evidence was given when Hambini assessed equipment.
In any case, if he was abusive then fair enough. I haven't read anything from him on here, so don't know if he was abusive.
Otherwise I'd have been happy to read his input. CBFed reading abuse or aggressive argument however.
I've been registered on here a while but haven't spent much time.


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Maddie
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by Maddie

https://www.hambini.com/daf-j-maurice-b ... e-arthurs/

Just check Hambini's latest coup on his website where he slashes a female cycling journalist and her partner. Naming illnesses and stuff. It is disgusting. Even worse that his fans seem to enjoy what he's doing (comment section). I have 2 of his BBs and they are amazing but his behavior is not childish (literally playing the 5year old card) but inexcusable.

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