Luescher Teknik's Thoughts on new bikes

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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spartan
Posts: 1439
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

quite simple. supply and demand. you get demand with strong product/marketing and limit supply.

does anyone follow the watch industry.

Rolex can charge 8.5k USD for a steel submariner . you can buy one if you are fortunate to find one in stock at your AD. flip it and sell it for 10k. if the dial is green, yes green as in hulk green you can sell it for 12-14k USD. madness. yes. welcome to land of rolex. the cost to produce is ~1k.
Current Rides:

2019 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Bora Di2 9150

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Lewn777
Posts: 1011
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

The whole point is the rider makes the bike. Bikes haven't really improved much in the last ten years, that's why we have improvements that have done very little to actually make anyone quicker such as silly aero claims, disk brakes and tubeless tech weight claims etc to convince people that spending $$$$ equals better. There may be improvements in safety/comfort/compliance/aesthetics etc but you're not going to be dropped because you don't have the latest a greatest made in China for cheap and sold with a high price tag bling. Have a bike under 7-7.5kg and a dialled-in drivetrain with over 18 gears that's about it, if you get dropped it's about your fitness.

Like a $1200 iphone there is someone with more money than sense that it literally queueing around the block to spurge money on something that probably cost under $100 to make.

by Weenie


sib
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:03 am

by sib

benzebub wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:09 pm
As for me, I ride a bespoke steel bike. I wanted another bike last year and test rode a lot of new carbon bikes. Yes, they were lighter, but not more comfortable, stiffer,.. than my steel frame.

So for the same money (even less if you go to certain brands) I decided to have another steel frame made with personalised geometry , custom paint and the Campagnolo groupset I wanted (which wasn't available on any catalogue bike).
Would be very interested to know what steel frames you have!
And pics and weights would be awesome, too :-)

It's something I'm thinking of doing next (or maybe ti).

keaton
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:03 pm

by keaton

Reading a Pez article about LeMond bikes. The top end bike bike in 2003 cost 5k. The author said this adjusts to 7k in 2020. With that perspective, bike price increases do seem a little out of control.

It got me wondering. Who pays full retail for a bike these days? Of course it does happen, maybe lot of people here do pay full retail? In my limited persepctive I don't personally know any enthusiast that has paid full retail for a top bike. Seems like most people wait for sales, find online, have some kind of bro deal via local team or industry relationship. Years ago when I worked in a shop a local well known millionaire came in to get outfitted (he was brand new to the sport, didn't have a starter road bike or anything), the shop owner gave him a small discount because he made such a big purchase all at once. This discount was to foster a relationship I'm sure, but the customer did not need it, or even ask. Perhaps the increases have come because so few high end bikes sell for full price, and people need to make money, lol idk, just rambling a kook conspriacy theory

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Kayrehn
Posts: 1495
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

Depends on the market I guess; there are surely lots of people who pay full retail in my own country, maybe not crazy rich Asians but just willing to splurge I guess. Just a while back I went into the Bianchi shop and the owner says he don't bring in XR3 because everyone who comes in only go for XR4 or an Aria to race on,ans I'm pretty sure the Pinarello dealer only brings in the F12 too.

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icantaffordcycling
Posts: 1168
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am
Location: Bay Area, CA

by icantaffordcycling

You would be surprised how popular the pinarello prince is for us. Pretty much 1:1 sales with an f12. One-step down bikes are super popular.

robertbb
Posts: 1613
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:06 am
You would be surprised how popular the pinarello prince is for us. Pretty much 1:1 sales with an f12. One-step down bikes are super popular.
The irony of your username and this comment ;-)

Irony, or providence. Well, relevance. :up:

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

for kgt:

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kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Thanks
So, there is the reason I am a Time fan :)
Raoul Luescher confirms that RTM done right is superior to prepreg. No voids, no porosity, perfect control of the weave and its characteristics and dimensions.

Anyone interested in understanding why all carbon frames aren’t the same must watch this video.


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Mr.Gib
Posts: 3921
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

I just watched the first couple of minutes. All I learned was that the front derailleur mount was drilled and mounted in the wrong location :P
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Oh, but you missed the good part.
Moby Dick starts with someone called Ishmael. Well, this is not the most important thing in the book...


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tarmackev
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

kgt wrote:Thanks
So, there is the reason I am a Time fan :)
Raoul Luescher confirms that RTM done right is superior to prepreg. No voids, no porosity, perfect control of the weave and its characteristics and dimensions.

Anyone interested in understanding why all carbon frames aren’t the same must watch this video.


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Certainly got me looking at Time bikes. I’ve wanted one on and off since 08 but never pulled the trigger.
Money’s always the main reason, they aren’t cheap.
Intend to run top level stuff but 3-4 years behind.
Quite hard to find Time bikes that age in the UK second hand.
One day I’ll get one I’m sure.


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TheRich
Posts: 759
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

keaton wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:57 pm
Reading a Pez article about LeMond bikes. The top end bike bike in 2003 cost 5k. The author said this adjusts to 7k in 2020. With that perspective, bike price increases do seem a little out of control.

It got me wondering. Who pays full retail for a bike these days? Of course it does happen, maybe lot of people here do pay full retail? In my limited persepctive I don't personally know any enthusiast that has paid full retail for a top bike. Seems like most people wait for sales, find online, have some kind of bro deal via local team or industry relationship. Years ago when I worked in a shop a local well known millionaire came in to get outfitted (he was brand new to the sport, didn't have a starter road bike or anything), the shop owner gave him a small discount because he made such a big purchase all at once. This discount was to foster a relationship I'm sure, but the customer did not need it, or even ask. Perhaps the increases have come because so few high end bikes sell for full price, and people need to make money, lol idk, just rambling a kook conspriacy theory
Considering that $8k will get you a semi aero carbon bike with Ultegra Di2 and carbon wheels, I'm not sure that comparison works. That's one hell of an upgrade for a grand.

keaton
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:03 pm

by keaton

TheRich wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:22 am
keaton wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:57 pm
Reading a Pez article about LeMond bikes. The top end bike bike in 2003 cost 5k. The author said this adjusts to 7k in 2020. With that perspective, bike price increases do seem a little out of control.

It got me wondering. Who pays full retail for a bike these days? Of course it does happen, maybe lot of people here do pay full retail? In my limited persepctive I don't personally know any enthusiast that has paid full retail for a top bike. Seems like most people wait for sales, find online, have some kind of bro deal via local team or industry relationship. Years ago when I worked in a shop a local well known millionaire came in to get outfitted (he was brand new to the sport, didn't have a starter road bike or anything), the shop owner gave him a small discount because he made such a big purchase all at once. This discount was to foster a relationship I'm sure, but the customer did not need it, or even ask. Perhaps the increases have come because so few high end bikes sell for full price, and people need to make money, lol idk, just rambling a kook conspriacy theory
Considering that $8k will get you a semi aero carbon bike with Ultegra Di2 and carbon wheels, I'm not sure that comparison works. That's one hell of an upgrade for a grand.

TRU!

I guess theres a point of diminsihing returns?

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 6620
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

And here is the problem with Time’s costly manufacturing. This Canyon made by Quest Composites is quite clean on the inside with only a couple voids on non-critical layers like the additional wrap around bonded joints. Time fans can tout their RTM process all day, but in the end it bankrupted the company and the bikes simply aren’t significantly better made than bikes made with conventional techniques.


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