John/Juanmoretime gone?

[basilic]

Lets not go overboard with the nostalgia.
Juanmoretime left over a specific issue - he erased a thread with some leaked pictures when Trek asked him to, without any explanation. When some members questioned this, he got in a huff and left. That strikes me as immature. He could have explained his reasoning, or said my bad, got carrier away.
Questioning heavyhanded or arbitrary moderation is a sign that people care.

[mdeth1313]

Lets not go overboard with the nostalgia.
Juanmoretime left over a specific issue - he erased a thread with some leaked pictures when Trek asked him to, without any explanation. When some members questioned this, he got in a huff and left. That strikes me as immature. He could have explained his reasoning, or said my bad, got carrier away.
Questioning heavyhanded or arbitrary moderation is a sign that people care.

Yeah, and posts like this have me with one foot out the door. Moderating the pissing contests that have become the norm and the lack of any empathy could be attributed to a sign of the times, but it's not this way on every forum.

[campagowlo]

I think the spirit of weenieism died a long time ago on here. I’ve been on here since the mid/late 2000s Campagowlo/Owl. Back in the day so many builds inspired me (LJ, Boonen, PK0r etc) and generated a lot of supportive critique and admiration. The last few years most threads are about aero wheels and zillions of similar Specialized builds. This is fine for those who are interested but it leaves me cold tbh. Even with the integration of different frame parts there is still the possibility for true weenie spirit frames. It would be good for the mods to consider a new part for the forum to refresh old archive builds which were special and for it to be devoted to rim brake weenie builds, consider it as a virtual museum for weightweenies.

There are still times when some threads shine and I’ve learnt a lot from and continue to from different members who offer their expert opinion. Yet too many threads descend into pseudoscience aero marketing arguments that seem to end up in acrimony.

[Berzin1]

A few comments on some of the issues being spoken of here-

1) Manufacturers have taken a more corporate approach to cycling frames, forks, wheels and parts. They do not want to leave one last penny on the floor, so there is little to no room left for smaller, independant companies to find a niche when companies are making propietrary parts for their frames that are incompatible with other companies. I know Darimo has atempted to deal with this, but this does not represent the overall trend towards complete in-house homogenization.

2) There really isn't all that much innovation left to cover, especially when everything everywhere is oversaturated with commentary.

3) Rudeness has a cost. People get sick and tired of the snark. For example, I atempted to post a thread on my titanium frame and commented on the ride. One poster said my comments sounded like someone who is looking to justify the cost of the bike. No, I was commenting on the ride quality and my initial impressions. So I took it down and forgot about it. I figured why bother.

It is unfortunate that juanmoretime deleted all of his posts, if that is truly the case. All those years of knowledge, sound advice and expertise gone in a couple of minutes. Nothing is worth such a loss for this forum. I hope he reconsiders and his posts can somehow be added back on to the site.

[tymon_tm]

TBH weight is a thing of the past. it's been that way for at least few years now, both due to integration, new 'cool' features (like aero, electric, now discs) but also the fact getting your bike light is not a question of sacrifices anymore (apart from cash obviously). I've never owned a truly WW bike - couldn't afford it back then - and now I just don't give a damn. my last two bikes, I don't even know how much they weight(ed) exatcly..

during my first years of riding (started in ~2000) weight was THE topic, both on the road talking to random dudes, in any given bike shop, on the internet.. finding WW was like a portal to another dimension, where stuff is way cooler, unique, often one-off. and as I said, since weight was the thing, WW gathered many like-minded, dedicated members who created what we now reminisce. but when getting your ride really light stopped being a hassle, and became just a question of money and picking up top stuff from any given big producer, that focus has shifted. WW became THE bike forum - weightweeniesm remained a theme, sure, but not a dominant one. nuff said listings are dead and gone - a tool I used for plannig EVERY purchase or build now looks like an old newspaper. and as the forum became more and more general, although it still attracted (and I believe - still does) great folks, it also saw stuff that torments all the internet communities - large type assholes, dudes who seek nothing but attention, 'comets' (guy's who'd click thousands of pointless posts in a very short time just to get banned or quit due to "losing interest" =turning into PITAs) and just random posters asking for 100th time about Ksyriums or stuff like that. don't get me wrong - it's still the best online community I ever came across, and although my input is very, very tiny (if any) I'm kinda proud to be here, having the access to literally anything and everything regarding bikes, racing etc., being "mates" with dudes like Zakeen, Rusty, Madcow, now Cal..

but yeah, that forum from 10+ years ago is gone, and never to return. perhaps some mod nominations were not too great, perhaps some of us ourselves added to 'relaxing' the etiquette, which saw more and more 'founding fathers' to leave. I don't know - what I do know though, is that WW could use some more general discussion about itself, because that's the one apparent thing lacking from this place as it grew bigger and bigger.

[themidge]

Like any forum, WW is what we the members make of it. If we want to see more of the good old days of tuning components and documenting each step of the way towards an ever-lighter bike, then do it!
I love going through all the old build threads (this forum is as old as I am!) and being inspired to keep my own going. Which reminds me, I must order that Dremel soon .

[Maximilian]

2020 weightweenies has morphed into something differemt from the Weightweenies of 10+ years ago. However, cycling has also changed, both technologically and socially, a lot in that time and I think the forum reflects that. Whilst some might say that the forums are overrun with loads of very similar Specilaized builds back 10 years ago it was the same with Scott CR1s and Addicts.

What we no longer have is the obsessive WeightWeenieism. The likes of Gumgardner, Madcow, Donald with crazy builds. When was the last time that we saw a Ruegamer, Spin Gato, Litespeed Ghisallo? Builds featured tuned & dremeled dereilleurs with homemade Ti springs, sanded frames/cranks/forks/shifters, sub 700g magnesium wheelsets, weird materials used as cables, non-metal screws/bolts. There are still some very cool builds here but we're not seeing the sub-4kg bikes anymore. godzuki26 is the only user who comes to mind to is "tuning" parts for builds. But we now have very aero and intrgrated builds which are cool in their own right.

Users come and go, times change and we change with them. This certainly isn't the first time this has been said, we had a similar thread with similar sentiments 4 years ago: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=142641.

Even through this place has changed a lot over the time I've been visited I still enjoy it and still enjoy seeing what people are doing with their bikes. Maybe it is time to bring back some of the old school tuning..? midge...

[RTW]

I remember those times, and my first WW builds featured drilled and demelled components. What made the forum so strong back then is that it was the only place to see that sort of thing. Finding components and learning about modifications was what WW was about. Brands that no mainstream media covered. Now, you have instagram and other places with builds to see. Internet retail is so much more mature, so searching for, finding and purchasing these components is simpler (there was a time you'd have to have someone buy things for you and send them on as international shipping wasn't offered). WW back then was my 'fix' of cycling during the day. It was where I could find people like me and talk to them about bikes, components and training. There are many other channels for that now.

But WW was my entry to the industry. I have some great friends from back then (speaking of Ruegamer, I was messaging Pritch this morning). Weight is no longer a key focus on my bikes, but it is still a consideration. There is still value here, and the Trek thread was a single thread. John's contributions were of greater value.

It would be good to remember though that there is no reason why the moderators shouldn't take down things when requested to by bike companies. This isn't Wikileaks, and this isn't government cover-ups. It is a small industry, where, for whatever reason a brand has decided that they don't want information about a new bike out there ahead of launch. That might be because launch has been put back owing to the supply chain in the current environment. Why shouldn't the forum comply with that?

[tymon_tm]

Finding components and learning about modifications was what WW was about. Brands that no mainstream media covered. (...) Internet retail is so much more mature, so searching for, finding and purchasing these components is simpler (there was a time you'd have to have someone buy things for you and send them on as international shipping wasn't offered).

fun fact: Soul Kozak hubs, that afaik were "WW certified" back then, are produced like few miles from my home - and where have I learned about their existence? yup, right here, from Madcow, who offered them in a shop, based on the other side of the freakin planet

[Orbital]

There seems to be topics like this on most forums. Many of the forums I frequented for my car obsession are barely hanging on or have changed names and iterations a few times over now. Forums are a dying media.

[Bigger Gear]

I've never really been here for the weight-related content. What I have always appreciated about this forum is that for the most part the frequent users are also very thorough and smart people who post useful information. I've been at it a long time in bicycles, but every now and then I have an issue/concern that requires some group thought and WW has always been a good place to seek additional info. However, I have noticed more recently a subset of users who really just want to come on here and debate minute personal opinion details and antogonize people. These people are the minority, but they can really ruin the vibe. It's like a workplace, only takes a couple of individuals to turn it toxic.

[ichobi]

Very good points said in many comments above. I echoed the sentiment that i myself is never a ww. Honestly I dont care for ultralight bike since there are tons of sacrifices and I dont have money to burn saving grams. Yet I have read most if not all of the threads here just because you dont find the depth of cycling knowledge else where.

There was a time we all think light bike is a good and desirable bike because it was the only thing that we could easily measured. Back then we try to make light bike for the sake of weight because there is nothing else to consider really. Nobody care about tire pressure and rim width and tiee clearance. Cycling has evolved so much in the last decade and a forum should also evolve as such. While we dont have extreme wwism like before, the fact that tons of people here are annal about tiny parts nobody care about is what make a true ww spirit for me. We just care to the level that we cant find like minded spirit elsewhere.

At least this is what I believe.

[dgasmd]

Well, regardless of the causes, that is another big loss to the forum in general. I read for a while here before joining in 2007. I learned exponentially just from reading here. The WW bug caught me and built some bikes with respectable weight, but not anywhere near the dozens of Parlee or Ruegamer or other Uber light bikes being posted here weekly. I personally think that as time has gone by, most people that have stayed on, with few exceptions, tend to get caught in the latest and newest to try. Aero won in that department as just like back in 2007, the UCI weight hasn't changed from 6.8 Kg. Fat tyres, aero frames, fat rims, disc brakes, blah blah blah.......ash given plenty to buy in the last few years to most. After nearly 10 years with the same 2 bikes, I build 2 bikes in the last couple of years. Traditional frames, going as low on weight as possible and reliable without spending major moolah (something that couldn't be done in 2007), and stayed with rim brakes and Campagnolo new 11 sp instead of moving to electronic or 12 sp. I still ride the same tubular types in 22 mm as of the last 7-8 years, and I don't see me moving to disc or 12 sp for probably another 10-12 years! So, yes, I may be a slow adopter, but I also have not seen a "real" benefit to any of it.

In my mind, Juanmoretime will be missed!! He lives in the same town I went college and did my first year of medical school too. Middle of corn land!!

[bilwit]

BTW if anyone is reading this retro-actively, I don't think he's officially totally gone, he just deleted most of his posts.

I have deleted my over 3,0000 posts since I refuse to bicker over this site. I'll do lesser important activities like ride my bikes and smile every kilometer or mile. I have requested Frankie B to permanently ban me since I no longer wish to be part of this I thought for years I contributed to the site, helped many members and made decisions in the best interest of the site. I guess I was wrong.

Unless they've fulfilled his request, I think he's simply taking a break for a while

As for "the good old days" type of posts, I think the forum still being relevant today is testament to how it has transcended just WWism and even Starbike itself, which is a great accomplishment. The fact is is that there are many factors as to why the WW-aspect of the forum is lost: cycling as a whole has moved away from being weight-centric, more integration and proprietary parts means less customization, posters getting older/losing interest over time, overall stock bike weights are increasingly more and more acceptable to the general public, etc. The listings have been broken/irrelevant for years and even the forum itself as a media platform is dying in the day and age of things like Reddit where modern "forums" don't even resemble the old category-based phpBB style.

Yet the forum is still relevant because if you Google any odd wrenching quirk, WW will be listed at or near the top. If you buy a stock bike and want to upgrade it and have no idea what your options are, you will probably inevitably come across WW. Yes, your standard Tarmac build (or EVO Hi Mod before it) is not that unique anymore, and the availability of parts makes it seem like it comes down to the same handful of parts for every build in general, but these types of posts are only ancillary to the greater community as a whole, not necessarily representative, and I don't think that's a bad thing. The forum attracts people who are into also sorts of bike nerdy, wether it be news listings/speculation, home wrench enthusiasts, true WWism, or people who are simply proud of their bike.

[micky]

Sad to see John leaving but Im sure that if/when he will decide to be back, he will be more than welcomed.

As I posted recently in another topic, this is the only cycling forum I visit daily cause even if weight is so 90s, it's still the best place to source cycling info/news/lurk at others bikes and so on.
Bike market changed, and WW community followed it, but it's still one of the best place to visit for bike nerds.