Virus And Riding.

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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ico
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by ico

ultimobici wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:39 pm
Conza wrote:Putting millions of healthy individuals under mass house arrest without trial for months on end isn't tyrannical? :lol: Guess you haven't popped your head out of the sand long enough to see how the world has been reacting to the variety of events the last few months here?
When people are trusted to “act responsibly” & “do the right thing” they don’t. Look at how the UK is compared to countries with more restrictions. The UK has a hands off approach compared to Italy, and as a consequence 10 times the new infection rate.

The restrictions you are under limit the interactions where the virus can be transmitted. Once the population has been vaccinated to a significant level, restrictions can be lifted.


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Maybe you should read this: "Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States"
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-00808-7

mrlobber
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by mrlobber

ico wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:20 pm
Maybe you should read this: "Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States"
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-00808-7
Jeez, that article doesn't pass even the basic rule for analysis: if you analyze something, you must do it by the groups of interest (in this case, vaccinated vs unvaccinated) to make the type of conclusion they're trying to do. A real world example: in my country vaccinated vs unvaccinated proportion is roughly 1:1, while Covid positive ratio is 1:5, and hospitalization ratio is 1:50.
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by Weenie


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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

An interesting comparison is Canada vs US. Canada (80% vaccinated, 87% first dose) has about 150 cases per 100,000 in the last 14 days wheres the US (57% vaccinated) is hovering at about 500 case per 100,000. It's kinda like hockey, Canadians are really into it.

And Protugal which has the highest vaccination rate in the world at 85% is at 88 cases per 100,000.

Nothing scientific about the jumble of information above but it is pretty suggestive about vaccination.
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OnTheRivet
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by OnTheRivet

mrlobber wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:17 pm
In my country where vaccination rates are among the lowest in the EU, after a pretty easy summer, the delta is now on a rampage with overall infections already surpassing those of peak January this year and hospitals warning of imminent collapse. We've had some mild restrictions (which many didn't obey anyway, in fact, the antivaxx crowd rallied behind a couple of new political parties with all the traditional arguments of totalitarianism etc, we've seen those already elsewhere), and now the government has a choice which is going to be wildly unpopular for roughly a half of population in any case: either try imposing a complete lockdown or keep doing nothing; obviously, they just declared they have made no decision yet... tragic crisis management incompetence, but again, nothing new all over the world.
Is it the Delta variant, seasonality or the vaccines not working as a "vaccine" but more of a symptom mitigator.

spud
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by spud

Vaccine as a symptom mitigator? You realize that all vaxes train the immune system to deal with a specific threat. Which means the threat has to get into the blood stream in order to get recognized, and then get efficiently attacked. So yeah, you "catch" the bug. But at least with a vax, the chances of getting deathly ill, taking up a hospital bed with an almost entirely avoidable presentation, and serving as a gigantic COVID factory with which to infect others, are immensely reduced.

The people giving the shots were always clear about this - it doesn't make you COVID proof. But it does a great job at preventing serious disease. And surprisingly enough, the government doesn't know any more about my comings and goings, and my cell service is still pretty shitty in some places, and good in others.

But hey, why not confuse the issue with seasonality (Trump - "and like a miracle, it'll be gone in the spring"). And unfortunately, the variant issue will come back to bight us - way too many have been serving as COVID factories.

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ms6073
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by ms6073

As someone who is vaccinated, I am somewhat concerned by recent studies that report that effectiveness of the Pfizervaccine falls off pretty dramatically after only two months. As for prevention or mitigation, although I have read a number of reports that the vaccine reduces serverity of symptoms for what the press have refered to as 'break through' infections, it seems to me that in reality, the best course may be an ongoing/periodic series of booster shots.
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synchronicity
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by synchronicity

Conza wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:06 pm
Absolutely laughable. How dumb can you be... to believe that. Reality: lockdowns don't work.
What are you talking about?🤨 Today we had 477 new cases in NSW Australia.
This is about 1/3rd of what it was only a few weeks ago.
Lockdowns work, although they have a delayed action.
I could equally make my own graph pointing to the decline and label those points "2 weeks after lockdown".
I see you have lumped the whole of Australia into one graph, rather than look at cities and regions on a case-by-case basis.
That's not very scientific at all!

https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/stay-sa ... statistics
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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

So this thread is now just a vaccine debate? Should this thread be locked or not, I am leaving the choice up to you.

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Conza
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by Conza

synchronicity wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:20 pm
Conza wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:06 pm
Absolutely laughable. How dumb can you be... to believe that. Reality: lockdowns don't work.
What are you talking about?🤨 Today we had 477 new cases in NSW Australia.
This is about 1/3rd of what it was only a few weeks ago.
Lockdowns work, although they have a delayed action.
I could equally make my own graph pointing to the decline and label those points "2 weeks after lockdown".
I see you have lumped the whole of Australia into one graph, rather than look at cities and regions on a case-by-case basis.
That's not very scientific at all!

https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/stay-sa ... statistics
:lol: "a delayed reaction" :roll: . 7 days -> 7 months later. Daft AF.

So the cases go down, after lockdown's end? Yeah... much like Florida/other Scando countries+ opened up entirely and cases plummeted. Riddle me the fact that the most vaccinated county in Ireland (97%) has the most cases.

Victoria most locked down city in the world, and you'd thus conclude least spread of it in Aus at least... OH wait, N-O-P-E - record daily cases lately. muH sCiEnCE "delayed action" :lol: .

They don't "work" from any rational basis. What does? The burden of proof ain't on me to establish that, since I'm not supporting innocent healthy individuals get put under house arrest. That burden is on you.

In any case, what would work? Allowing individuals to mitigate their OWN risk, and letting property owners stipulate whatever CONDITIONS OF ENTRY they want on their property/business... if that is ultra-vaxxed only etc. negative tests, mask etc. so be it.
But if A wants to go to B - and its clearly known there's 'loose conditions' and thus 'more risk' - what the hell is it C's business if A and B engage in that exchange?

All the blabbing about empirical studies are ultimately irrelevant. Do I have a right to decide what goes into my own body? i.e. self-ownership? Should property owners be able to determine what conditions someone can enter their premises?

Yes to both. That's what ultimately matters. That's the SOLUTION. That's the WIN-WIN for EVERYONE, regardless of your persuasion (pro-vax, anti-vax, pro-lockdown, anti-lockdown etc.).

Pro tip: anyone scared can self-isolate ('lockdown') any time you want. Don't need to threaten anyone or support state agents using violence against others, just live you sad life at home and leave the rest of us alone.
It's all about the adventure :o .

Locked