2020 Pro thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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LouisN
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by LouisN

I had to search a little about the kid because I never heard the name.
He's doing quite well in XC !
I also found our local guy is 18th on the last UCI men's elite list :shock: !
So many "pros" I'm not even aware about.... :lol:

And nothing yet about why would Lance keep his 1993 rainbow stripes :P

LOuis :)

IchDien
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by IchDien

Cervelo keen on having Dumoulin ?

by Weenie


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Stendhal
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by Stendhal

LouisN wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:17 am

And nothing yet about why would Lance keep his 1993 rainbow stripes :P

LOuis :)
Very good catch! Armstrong appears intent on undermining whatever is left of his legacy, including any reputation for intelligence. He was the biggest beneficiary from the so called omertà, but has forgotten that he has to follow it too. I know some of his lawyers from the Landis case, I bet they're glad their engagement is over.
Cervelo Aspero (7.75); Orbea Orca OMX (7.30)
Retired: S-Works Tarmac SL6, LOW// mki, Pinarello Dogma F10\F8, Lapierre Pulsium, TIME Fluidity, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2\R3\R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

sychen
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by sychen

Still need to take stripes /GT titles away from a whole host of proven/admitted cheats from that era...

My issue has never been why Lance lost his 7 tdf but why Riis and co kept theirs. Be consistent.. Restore the 7 and put an asterisk against all of them.. Or remove any former "winners" and have a blank era.

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Stendhal
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by Stendhal

sychen wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 4:48 am
Still need to take stripes /GT titles away from a whole host of proven/admitted cheats from that era...

My issue has never been why Lance lost his 7 tdf but why Riis and co kept theirs. Be consistent.. Restore the 7 and put an asterisk against all of them.. Or remove any former "winners" and have a blank era.

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I agree sychen, you've nailed a key issue. I go back and forth on this myself. On the one hand I think that no one could have won those Tours without EPO and that Armstrong's misdeeds were no worse a transgression than others (including literaly the greatest name in the sport, who failed three drug tests and twice legitmately so), so why single Armstrong out. At other times, though, I adopt Armstrong exceptionalism not so much for his taking the extra step of slandering his adversaries and lying in legal proceedings, but because he persisted in the doping fraud for so long and thus left a longer scar on the event. Also, Armstrong's streak started in 1999, the year after the Festina affair and the harm that did to the event. There was a historical opportunity to re-start on a cleaner footing, which Armstrong played into publicly while eviscerating it in private reality.

And now I'll stop because, forget Armstrong the world has moved on. But expect to read a lot more about him in the broader media after the ESPN documentary on him airs on May 24.
Cervelo Aspero (7.75); Orbea Orca OMX (7.30)
Retired: S-Works Tarmac SL6, LOW// mki, Pinarello Dogma F10\F8, Lapierre Pulsium, TIME Fluidity, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2\R3\R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

sychen
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by sychen

Stendhal wrote:
sychen wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 4:48 am
Still need to take stripes /GT titles away from a whole host of proven/admitted cheats from that era...

My issue has never been why Lance lost his 7 tdf but why Riis and co kept theirs. Be consistent.. Restore the 7 and put an asterisk against all of them.. Or remove any former "winners" and have a blank era.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
I agree sychen, you've nailed a key issue. I go back and forth on this myself. On the one hand I think that no one could have won those Tours without EPO and that Armstrong's misdeeds were no worse a transgression than others (including literaly the greatest name in the sport, who failed three drug tests and twice legitmately so), so why single Armstrong out. At other times, though, I adopt Armstrong exceptionalism not so much for his taking the extra step of slandering his adversaries and lying in legal proceedings, but because he persisted in the doping fraud for so long and thus left a longer scar on the event. Also, Armstrong's streak started in 1999, the year after the Festina affair and the harm that did to the event. There was a historical opportunity to re-start on a cleaner footing, which Armstrong played into publicly while eviscerating it in private reality.

And now I'll stop because, forget Armstrong the world has moved on. But expect to read a lot more about him in the broader media after the ESPN documentary on him airs on May 24.
Thanks stendhal.. Always found the hypocrisy of people with Merckx blinkers to his amphetamine usage as ok quite amusing. Granted, I didn't live in that era to romanticise about these legends.. And having respect for them and their incredible feats doesn't mean their transgressions can be ignored. To err is human..

Lance's biggest sin is really being a complete arsehole and being American in a euro traditional sport. Traditionalists were all too eager to strike him down when he admitted guilt. Being a douchebag should not single him out for special punishment...

Lance really is no different than a certain MJordan.. Yup I went there.

Both are by achievement alone the greatest their sport during a similar era. Both completely ruthless in their pursuit of success with no regard to others well being. Both took the rules/accepted conventions of the time in their respective sport and pushed it right to the limit and beyond. No one will ever accuse either of being nice guys. Both had redemption/comeback stories (baseball/cancer).

Jordan was and always will be idolised because he played an American sport no matter what he did (short of doing an OJ)

Lance was quickly thrown to the wolves by Americans as he was a cyclist... And won stuff in France and they really could not care unless he was winning for America.

I love basketball and watching MJ ball in the nineties.. And loved watching Lance tear up 7 tdf in a row. I also know they are not people I want over for a drink at my house. I celebrate their achievements but have always kept an eye on their flaws because that is what makes it human.

Rant over.. Got carried away.



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Kjetil
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by Kjetil

Armstrong got caught. Big time. By the US anti doping agency, not any euro setup. Free doping in us basket, hockey and Am. fotball should not affect WADA rules.

LA got a lifetime ban. Still doing fine. Others, like Ulle and Bjarne also got caught or conceded. No life time bans, but plenty of mental trouble.

Get over it.
(It’s a whole lot more interesting to know where Bianchi goes next year.)
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nulldreiundreissig
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by nulldreiundreissig

As a fact the French did not dare to name a new winner for lance' 7 tours de France. That kinda speeks for itself...
I grew up wachting Jan battling Lance and Jan's crash in the rainy TT in 2003 broke a little 8 year old's heart, but let's be honest: Once every sample would be retested with the same methods, some random guy in 100th place might be a tour winner, not any of "our Heroes" be it Jan Ulrich, Pantani or someone else. According to wikipedia, the French found EPO when retesting Pantanis samples from the 1998 tour in 2004, yet he has not been stripped of his titles retroactively. In fact he has still won the giro-tour double and well, everyone had doped back then, didn't they?

I think it's time to accept that there was a period of omnipresent doping and that we might never know who was the fastest undoped riders back then. Yet the sport has moved on, testing has become so much better and to me its quite reassuring that up until now, every now and then someone gets busted for doping violations.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

there's no justice in the world - that's how I'd comment on the matter. for those a bit more open minded, LA won 7 Tours, just like any other rider won his. I never quite understood how can someone play impersonificating Themis, and claim Lance's case is different than Merckx's, Pantani's, Bertie's, Froome's.. cheating is cheating, we either accept it's present in pro sport (which it is, and always will be) or I don't know - turn the tv off, or engage in countless, pointless debates over who's less worthy, whose trasgressions are forgivable and whose are not. I still wear my Livestrong wristband, and have no illussions whatsoever about the current state of affairs - I just try to appreciate good racing, the rest is often beyond my grasp or even the tiniest influence, so why bother.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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kytyree
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by kytyree

https://www.velonews.com/culture/the-ou ... er-valued/

A few numbers in here relating to some of what we were discussing last week. There are some other differences between broadcasting the Premier League here in the US and European cycling that aren't discussed imo, but the difference in what tv is paying is clearly there. I'd be curious to see what would happen if cycling tried "bundling" the tv rights. I don't know how much value some of the events would hold if their tv rights were bundled together with cycling's bigger events. It sounds good, but that doesn't mean an NBC would pay significantly more for them anymore than they'd pony up a lot more cash to add the Championship to their Premier League Coverage (I think the Championship is on ESPN in the US?).

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ms6073
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by ms6073

Stendhal wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:45 am
Armstrong's misdeeds were no worse a transgression than others (including literaly the greatest name in the sport, who failed three drug tests and twice legitmately so), so why single Armstrong out.
Because the others did not use their fortunes to bring lawsuits against any and all who questioned his authenticity! I like others understand what it took to win during that era and nothing is going to alter that, my problem has always been with the people he hurt in the process, the ones who helped him attain those victories, like Frankie Andreu and Emma O'reilly.
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C36
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by C36

Lance brought doping to levels not seen elsewhere.
Lance had a “mafia” type of behaviour like no one before.

Those two points are putting him alone, high up, in the ranking.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

C36 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:05 pm
Lance brought doping to levels not seen elsewhere.
Lance had a “mafia” type of behaviour like no one before.

Those two points are putting him alone, high up, in the ranking.
but that is not even correct - systematic doping is known at least since DDR (there are lots of articles and some docs on that subject - THAT system did ruin many lifes) and is a known *feature* in any given discipline. it's responsible for introducing kids/teens to drugs, and then keeping those who won't comply out of the picture. yes, you do need "mafia type of behaviour" from all parties involved to keep it running.

as for the reasons why poeple think there was anything exceptional about Lance - imho he put a target on his back himself. that, and the fact he was probably too successful and an outsider altogether made it so easy to pin all the dirt of the world on him and with him gone, pretend the devil's been casted away.

edit: and let's not forget behind every dirty athlete, there's a bunch of people involved, including the very person who introduced him or her to drugs. how come we never meet THEIR names..
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

A video is out on Swenson's Everesting record ride. His FTP is 370w and he weighs 64kg. Dang!

He picked the perfect climb. The road was closed to vehicles. He can just bomb down the descents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aSjbVQ ... fVB58nyFX0

by Weenie


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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Caley Fretz and Ruth Winder are Everesting on Flagstaff Mountain in Boulder today. Ruth Winder is a Pro and the overall winner of the 2020 Santos Tour Down Under. So a bit of 'Pro' news for you.

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