2020 Pro thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

Moderator: Moderator Team

mrlobber
Posts: 1188
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Nice 8) Do the French possibly know anything we do not?
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nairo- ... de-france/
Retired bikes: Cervelo S5 2015 / Felt AR FRD 2014 / Cannondale SS HM 2014 / Scott Addict SL 2014 / Scott Plasma Premium 2014 / Orbea Orca 2008 / Look 596 /

GaBa
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:01 pm

by GaBa

Not sure what Pogačar's weight at 17 was, but commentator said that colleagues called him bajsi, meaning fatty. Didn't catch if he weighed more than now or he was just chunckier than others.

by Weenie


CrankAddictsRich
Posts: 1910
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:39 pm
Contact:

by CrankAddictsRich

maquisard wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:45 pm
Hmmm, that is the entire point of using W/Kg, the absolute number in watts is irrelevant
Yes... I get that. I'm just saying that IMO a lot of people don't realize how low the actual watt number can be when you're talkig about someone that weighs that little.

CrankAddictsRich
Posts: 1910
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:39 pm
Contact:

by CrankAddictsRich

In other news... during the boradcast on the final day, they wree saying that both Dumoulin and Martin were fined 2000 francs for improper skinsuits in the TT... does anyone else have info? they weren't sure if it had something to do with imporopwer materials or the way sponsors were listed, etc.

MikeM
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:16 pm
Location: Leeds, UK

by MikeM

CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:08 pm
In other news... during the boradcast on the final day, they wree saying that both Dumoulin and Martin were fined 2000 francs for improper skinsuits in the TT... does anyone else have info? they weren't sure if it had something to do with imporopwer materials or the way sponsors were listed, etc.
The world champion bands on the skinsuits were in the wrong place. According to rules they should be on the collar and cuffs, whereas on Dumoulin & Martin's skinsuits they were mid-upper arm; see here: - Cyclingnews Article
"Life without passion is empty" - Eddy Merckx
So that explains the hours on a bike...


ALS
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:34 pm

by ALS

JMeinholdt wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:18 pm
Nefarious86 wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:12 pm
I can't say I'm a fan of this trend of bike change trials....

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
Ditto. I understand it, but I don't like it.
This isn't a trend. It was first done in the 1987 TdF by Jef Bernard winning up to Mont Ventoux.

I don't see the problem, you lose time and rythmn changing and run the risk of messing it up when changing....I quite like the fact that everyone has to consider their strategy.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 6620
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:56 am
Unniti wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:12 am
When you look at it this TT wasn't some inhuman effort. We see minute gaps even between good TT guys on flat courses, especially on a third week of a GT. Even Tom has put over a minute on guys like Froome on flat TT courses. It was much more about far superior recon and preparation from UAE compared to TJV. Jumbo didn't even seem to know if switching bikes is faster or not. Tom lost a minute to Porte and 40 seconds to WVA on the climb, were those performances also inhuman.
It's not about the gap, for which there can be many explanations. It's about the numbers that were required to get that gap. "Conveniently" he had no PM with him on the climb so power data is not available. If he really was doing 6.9w/kg on the very last day of the 3 week Tour, and in the last 16 minutes of an hour-long TT after going at or just under threshold before... I think that should put the implied VO2 max very close to "mutant" territory. There are other estimates based on VAM that put POG's numbers closer to 6.5 w/kg on the climb, which is far more plausible physiologically, althought still insanely high, particularly given the efforts that preceded it.

Like I said above, when ppl set climbing records these days, I get suspicious. All the major climbing records on big Apline or Pyrhenean climbs were set by well-known dopers. For Planche des Belles Filles, I would have thought It'd be quite hard for a solo rider to beat the times set during stage racing - like in 2012, with Froome/Wiggins scoring a 1-2 after being paced up by Sky (incl. Richie Porte) for the early stages of the climb. Have a look here, and tell me any of these guys were playing games or not going all out for any part of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M0NzSKRJnI

Based on the Strava segment, Richie completed the climb in 16:39 at 1825VAM. We know that Pogacar was 22 seconds faster or ~1865VAM. This includes lost time to a bike change, which I wager is an additional 20 seconds with dismounting, remounting and acceleration. If we include that, Pogacar actually climbed at over 1900VAM. Contador did the Verbier climb at 1850VAM at around 6.8w/kg, but it was shallower. My guess is Pogacar’s w/kg at least matched Contador’s here, though Alberto did it for 5 minutes more.

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:41 pm


Based on the Strava segment, Richie completed the climb in 16:39 at 1825VAM. We know that Pogacar was 22 seconds faster or ~1865VAM. This includes lost time to a bike change, which I wager is an additional 20 seconds with dismounting, remounting and acceleration. If we include that, Pogacar actually climbed at over 1900VAM. Contador did the Verbier climb at 1850VAM at around 6.8w/kg, but it was shallower. My guess is Pogacar’s w/kg at least matched Contador’s here, though Alberto did it for 5 minutes more.
Thanks for doing some math. So that'd be an absolute record VAM for TDF, ever. At the end of the 3 week Tour. Flying solo. After a 45 minute near-threshold effort....

Ok then.

smartyiak
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:20 pm

by smartyiak

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:15 pm

Thanks for doing some math. So that'd be an absolute record VAM for TDF, ever. At the end of the 3 week Tour. Flying solo. After a 45 minute near-threshold effort....

Ok then.
I’m sorry you can’t dream big. I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 6620
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:15 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:41 pm


Based on the Strava segment, Richie completed the climb in 16:39 at 1825VAM. We know that Pogacar was 22 seconds faster or ~1865VAM. This includes lost time to a bike change, which I wager is an additional 20 seconds with dismounting, remounting and acceleration. If we include that, Pogacar actually climbed at over 1900VAM. Contador did the Verbier climb at 1850VAM at around 6.8w/kg, but it was shallower. My guess is Pogacar’s w/kg at least matched Contador’s here, though Alberto did it for 5 minutes more.
Thanks for doing some math. So that'd be an absolute record VAM for TDF, ever. At the end of the 3 week Tour. Flying solo. After a 45 minute near-threshold effort....

Ok then.

This is the Strava segment I used:
https://www.strava.com/segments/1539752

So it just depends on whether the elevation profile is accurate...

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

smartyiak wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:22 pm
aeroisnteverything wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:15 pm

Thanks for doing some math. So that'd be an absolute record VAM for TDF, ever. At the end of the 3 week Tour. Flying solo. After a 45 minute near-threshold effort....

Ok then.
I’m sorry you can’t dream big. I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles.
The calculated value of Contador's VO2 max on the Verbier ascent is c. 98. Values can differ a bit because even small inaccuracies in calculation can skew this. But a value that high is considered to be very nearly impossible for an unmodified human. Pogacar's calculated value could come out even higher - close to or above 100. Am looking forward to the science of sports podcast on this.

smartyiak
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:20 pm

by smartyiak

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:02 pm
smartyiak wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:22 pm
aeroisnteverything wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:15 pm

Thanks for doing some math. So that'd be an absolute record VAM for TDF, ever. At the end of the 3 week Tour. Flying solo. After a 45 minute near-threshold effort....

Ok then.
I’m sorry you can’t dream big. I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles.
The calculated value of Contador's VO2 max on the Verbier ascent is c. 98. Values can differ a bit because even small inaccuracies in calculation can skew this. But a value that high is considered to be very nearly impossible for an unmodified human. Pogacar's calculated value could come out even higher - close to or above 100. Am looking forward to the science of sports podcast on this.
Me too. I'll be interested in how they address it without using the terms "skeptical," "otherworldly," "Spanish beef," or similar.

JMeinholdt
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:31 pm
Location: Topeka, KS

by JMeinholdt

smartyiak wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:34 pm
Me too. I'll be interested in how they address it without using the terms "skeptical," "otherworldly," "Spanish beef," or similar.
Why can't they use those terms? I don't understand why you seem to be so against skepticism. I mean, this is pro cycling after all. If you aren't skeptical of performances that seem too good to be true, then you've been asleep for the last 30+ years.

Kudos to the kid for a great job. But, let's be honest, a lot of people could, and did, say that Lance was the best there ever was until years later when the truth came out.

The kid is special, and I hope it's 100% legit. But I do want this to be vetted thoroughly.
Wilier Cento10AIR Rim Brake - SRAM Force AXS
BMC GF02 - Ultegra R8000 - Commuter/Trainer

Strava link: https://www.strava.com/athletes/jmeinholdt

by Weenie


User avatar
MiSzA (PL)
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: Poland

by MiSzA (PL)

dolophonic wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:06 am
maquisard wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:20 pm
I did not see the final TT direct, but had assumed Roglic had a very bad TT - the truth is that it was not terrible relative to WvA and Dumoulin. Pogacar was simply in another zone. It was indeed a very special performance.
This exactly .. well put. A lot of talk about Roglic collapse etc but his time was respectable indeed, just Pogacar was on another level.
Well - what did bother me was the fact that he did not "look" destroyed on the finish line - one would expect that such effort would be taxing at best - but he seemd just like he would finish a hard set of intrvals with a big dig at the end... that was the biggest contrast to *all* other contestants that were going for good time in this TT.

Post Reply