Battle of the Mamils

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/battle- ... -mountain/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjHrdKJahSU

Cyclingtips editor Neal Rogers vs. Jonathon Vaughters - average joe with some fitness vs. a barely trained ex-pro record holder on Mount Ventoux.

As a fellow Mamil with average gentics, I was rooting for Neal. Unfortunately he failed us. He only road 2700 miles this year according to Strava with only two rides per week averaging 32 miles for the last month. To his credit, it sounds like JV trained even less but still won.

Unlike most of us average athletes JV is probably a fast responder to training stimulus. A few trainer rides over a couple months and he's flying (relatively).

The most interesting comment was from Vaughters. He thought that Rogers was fitter and that if he had set his highest pace for the whole distance he may have won. Vaughters was able to use his superior VO2max in the last few minutes to take the win.

I have to say that I was impressed that Vaughters really looked like he was suffering at the end. Probably the ability to suffer more for 5 minutes is a genetic pro trait. Or, maybe it is a trained skill?
Last edited by AJS914 on Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

I think most Pros are born with a big cardio system that once trained specifically for cycling are competitive on some higher level or another. I also believe every individual has a certain pain tolerance level that is gifted naturally as well. Pretty sure that training also increases the pain tolerance and VO2 levels to a certain point depending on how gifted you are. Its amazing to me how much endurance that ex-pros still have after retirement with base miles that seem to last forever.
I remember years ago when Steve Bauer retired from the Peloton and he stopped riding for the first year or so and then decided to ride an event Paris-Ancaster in Ontario which is approx 60-70km long on rail trails, gravel, pavement, fire roads and some single track. He started off with the Cat 1/2 class and stayed with them for the first hour and a bit and these guys are moving along at a pretty good pace which even though there is some drafting its still tough going. I didnt catch up to him until nearly the two hour mark and he still managed to ride away without too much difficulty.
So the ex pros can still suffer like a dog, still have huge natural cardio and obviously a good pain threshold. Steve continued to ride from that point on up to a few years ago AFAIK but he is working for a pro team as of last year.
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by Weenie


ichobi
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by ichobi

JV's final comment was very astute. It's a small point but sums up the whole thing perfectly.

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Marin
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by Marin

It's amusing how totally butthurt the editor sounds in the story on the page; didn't see the video yet.

AJS914
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by AJS914

The thing that is so annoying (for us regular joes) is that JV only did like 8 trainer rides over a month to prepare for this. (Mentioned on the last cyclingtips podcast.) I don't think I could find that kind of fitness in 8 trainer rides to save my life. :D

I think Rogers was dissaapointed a bit because this dual was his to win. If he had just gotten a trainer road sub for a couple of months and then ridden a smarter race, he would have won. (He admitted that he did not structured training whatsoever and that he hates structured training.)

flying
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by flying

Hahah that was a good little video

Like you said about Neal ...He only rode 2700 miles this year according to Strava with only two rides per week averaging 32 miles for the last month

That is pretty minimal

TheRich
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by TheRich

Huh, I thought Flagstaff was a longer climb...doesn't seem like a very good test of fitness. (a longer climb would be a better test)

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

TheRich wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:21 am
Huh, I thought Flagstaff was a longer climb...doesn't seem like a very good test of fitness. (a longer climb would be a better test)

It looks like Super Flag is 4.6mi and 2000ft of climb. It took Neal nearly 36min. Seems pretty good for testing high aerobic capacity to me. Pros can pretty much use it for a 20min test.

AJS914
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by AJS914

He does live in snow country so I give him a break on the mileage. Drilling some sweet spot or threshold 2x20s a few times a week on the trainer for the last month though might have had him better prepared for a 30 minute ITT.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Superflag is a beast of a climb. A good benchmark is 30min for the studs and studettes. I think if one is reasonably light and can sustain 300w a time of 30min is achievable. Two guys that I ride with have sub-30 times and they are both studs. I’ll be happy to break 40min which will be my goal for 2020.


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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Neal weighs ~160lbs and did 246W over 35:42.

I did the rough math and it looks like I'd need to put out ~275W solo to get sub-30.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

This is the Strava segment Neil raced on: https://www.strava.com/segments/626263?filter=overall

I see Neil Rogers on page 40 at 33:48. There's no power data for Neil. His PR was set in July 2019 and not Dec. 2019.

I was mistaken on my own PR. My PR is 37:02 with an average power of 201w. Now I'm 10lbs lighter than I was in May 2019 so I hope to shave off another minute if I can maintain a 200w average. My power seems low but keep in mind the climb tops out at 7,697'.

My friend's PR is 29:30 at 305w. This time puts him at 218th out of 7101. Very impressive time and power output at altitude.


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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Nice video. Thanks for the link. Now I see his power data in the Dec. ride. Neil's PR ride didn't have real power data.

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