Which bike brands are owned by corporations that love money more than bikes?

[Jugi]

-Carbon fiber is a strange material because of how it catastrophically fails. Imagine the Bianchi fork failure happened to someone in London, that rider could have easily ended up under a bus squished. If we look at automotive parts for cars and motorcycles they fail much less catastrophically and are much less likely to fail as most things are made of steel or alminium. A mountain bike or motorcycle suspension fork just won't fail in the same way. Therefore such a critical part made of such an exotic material that is so poorly inspected is almost a one-off in any industry and really manufacturers should do more than just to have or say they have good design and manufacture processes, IMO they need to produce data to prove each fork is safe and error free.

No. Carbon fiber is not an explosive compound and you’re still forgetting that freak accidents which occur in every 1:1 000 000 000 use cases do not bare any statistical relevance.

Go on a YouTube marathon and feast your eyes on 90’s MTBs being split in half when landing a table top jump awkwardly. No carbon fiber to be seen, yet the frames seem to fail catastrophically. How weird is that?

Carbon fiber doesn’t explode, tear or crack cleanly through the structure very easily. My opinion doesn’t enjoy any statistical relevance either, but I believe in most failures carbon fiber structures lose their stiffness first (when delamination happens). That should be easily distinguishable when the structure is load bearing, as extra movement, creaks and rattles present the issue before the structure collapses completely.

[Lewn777]

-Carbon fiber is a strange material because of how it catastrophically fails. Imagine the Bianchi fork failure happened to someone in London, that rider could have easily ended up under a bus squished. If we look at automotive parts for cars and motorcycles they fail much less catastrophically and are much less likely to fail as most things are made of steel or alminium. A mountain bike or motorcycle suspension fork just won't fail in the same way. Therefore such a critical part made of such an exotic material that is so poorly inspected is almost a one-off in any industry and really manufacturers should do more than just to have or say they have good design and manufacture processes, IMO they need to produce data to prove each fork is safe and error free.

No. Carbon fiber is not an explosive compound and you’re still forgetting that freak accidents which occur in every 1:1 000 000 000 use cases do not bare any statistical relevance.

Go on a YouTube marathon and feast your eyes on 90’s MTBs being split in half when landing a table top jump awkwardly. No carbon fiber to be seen, yet the frames seem to fail catastrophically. How weird is that?

Carbon fiber doesn’t explode, tear or crack cleanly through the structure very easily. My opinion doesn’t enjoy any statistical relevance either, but I believe in most failures carbon fiber structures lose their stiffness first (when delamination happens). That should be easily distinguishable when the structure is load bearing, as extra movement, creaks and rattles present the issue before the structure collapses completely.

To compare a 90's MTB's which was made out of soda-can quality aluminium alloy being jumped over and over again and forming stress fractures and a carbon fiber steerer collapsing when it goes over a small bump in the road and fails without warning is completely ridiculous. I don't need a marathon of 90's MTBs on YT, I was riding one then.

In the last four years I've had one carbon fibre fork fail on me, one seat stay junction and one seat post. My actual experince completely differs from your totally from your unsubstantiated opinion. The fork leg unzipped suddenly like a cheap pair of jeans over a road surface which had a slight bump, and the seat stay cracked because it took a hit from falling in a large pot hole. Zero warning, no creaks or visible giveaways. Only the seat post gave a warning of feeling odd.

If you want to win the internet by proving other people wrong and you right try coming in with some actual first hand personal experience, 2nd hand knowledge or data.

[sethjs]

Which brands did you have each of those 3 failures on? Curious.

[TheRich]

Wasn't a shim involved in the seat tube?

[silvalis]

If you want to win the internet by proving other people wrong and you right try coming in with some actual first hand personal experience, 2nd hand knowledge or data.

This should read
"If you want to win the internet by proving other people wrong and you right try coming in here with anecdotal evidence.

[hlvd]

-Carbon fiber is a strange material because of how it catastrophically fails. Imagine the Bianchi fork failure happened to someone in London, that rider could have easily ended up under a bus squished. If we look at automotive parts for cars and motorcycles they fail much less catastrophically and are much less likely to fail as most things are made of steel or alminium. A mountain bike or motorcycle suspension fork just won't fail in the same way. Therefore such a critical part made of such an exotic material that is so poorly inspected is almost a one-off in any industry and really manufacturers should do more than just to have or say they have good design and manufacture processes, IMO they need to produce data to prove each fork is safe and error free.

No. Carbon fiber is not an explosive compound and you’re still forgetting that freak accidents which occur in every 1:1 000 000 000 use cases do not bare any statistical relevance.

Go on a YouTube marathon and feast your eyes on 90’s MTBs being split in half when landing a table top jump awkwardly. No carbon fiber to be seen, yet the frames seem to fail catastrophically. How weird is that?

Carbon fiber doesn’t explode, tear or crack cleanly through the structure very easily. My opinion doesn’t enjoy any statistical relevance either, but I believe in most failures carbon fiber structures lose their stiffness first (when delamination happens). That should be easily distinguishable when the structure is load bearing, as extra movement, creaks and rattles present the issue before the structure collapses completely.

To compare a 90's MTB's which was made out of soda-can quality aluminium alloy being jumped over and over again and forming stress fractures and a carbon fiber steerer collapsing when it goes over a small bump in the road and fails without warning is completely ridiculous. I don't need a marathon of 90's MTBs on YT, I was riding one then.

In the last four years I've had one carbon fibre fork fail on me, one seat stay junction and one seat post. My actual experince completely differs from your totally from your unsubstantiated opinion. The fork leg unzipped suddenly like a cheap pair of jeans over a road surface which had a slight bump, and the seat stay cracked because it took a hit from falling in a large pot hole. Zero warning, no creaks or visible giveaways. Only the seat post gave a warning of feeling odd.

If you want to win the internet by proving other people wrong and you right try coming in with some actual first hand personal experience, 2nd hand knowledge or data.

Could you tell us which brands those failures happened on, be interesting to hear, thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lewn777]

If you want to win the internet by proving other people wrong and you right try coming in with some actual first hand personal experience, 2nd hand knowledge or data.

This should read
"If you want to win the internet by proving other people wrong and you right try coming in here with anecdotal evidence.

Personal first hand evidence vs nothing. Then personal first hand evidence wins.

[Lewn777]

-Carbon fiber is a strange material because of how it catastrophically fails. Imagine the Bianchi fork failure happened to someone in London, that rider could have easily ended up under a bus squished. If we look at automotive parts for cars and motorcycles they fail much less catastrophically and are much less likely to fail as most things are made of steel or alminium. A mountain bike or motorcycle suspension fork just won't fail in the same way. Therefore such a critical part made of such an exotic material that is so poorly inspected is almost a one-off in any industry and really manufacturers should do more than just to have or say they have good design and manufacture processes, IMO they need to produce data to prove each fork is safe and error free.

No. Carbon fiber is not an explosive compound and you’re still forgetting that freak accidents which occur in every 1:1 000 000 000 use cases do not bare any statistical relevance.

Go on a YouTube marathon and feast your eyes on 90’s MTBs being split in half when landing a table top jump awkwardly. No carbon fiber to be seen, yet the frames seem to fail catastrophically. How weird is that?

Carbon fiber doesn’t explode, tear or crack cleanly through the structure very easily. My opinion doesn’t enjoy any statistical relevance either, but I believe in most failures carbon fiber structures lose their stiffness first (when delamination happens). That should be easily distinguishable when the structure is load bearing, as extra movement, creaks and rattles present the issue before the structure collapses completely.

To compare a 90's MTB's which was made out of soda-can quality aluminium alloy being jumped over and over again and forming stress fractures and a carbon fiber steerer collapsing when it goes over a small bump in the road and fails without warning is completely ridiculous. I don't need a marathon of 90's MTBs on YT, I was riding one then.

In the last four years I've had one carbon fibre fork fail on me, one seat stay junction and one seat post. My actual experince completely differs from your totally from your unsubstantiated opinion. The fork leg unzipped suddenly like a cheap pair of jeans over a road surface which had a slight bump, and the seat stay cracked because it took a hit from falling in a large pot hole. Zero warning, no creaks or visible giveaways. Only the seat post gave a warning of feeling odd.

If you want to win the internet by proving other people wrong and you right try coming in with some actual first hand personal experience, 2nd hand knowledge or data.

Could you tell us which brands those failures happened on, be interesting to hear, thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fork leg: Java
Seat stay bridge: Fuji SL
Seapost: Unbranded Chinese carbon post

[spartan]

all those brands are 3rd rate . issue is more quality control at the factory vs design. buy garbage and lottery ticket
btw most threaded bb failures in the past occured because of wrong use of carbon in the aluminum bb area. btw Pinarello have always used threaded bb the last 10 years with no known failures.

No. Carbon fiber is not an explosive compound and you’re still forgetting that freak accidents which occur in every 1:1 000 000 000 use cases do not bare any statistical relevance.

Go on a YouTube marathon and feast your eyes on 90’s MTBs being split in half when landing a table top jump awkwardly. No carbon fiber to be seen, yet the frames seem to fail catastrophically. How weird is that?

Carbon fiber doesn’t explode, tear or crack cleanly through the structure very easily. My opinion doesn’t enjoy any statistical relevance either, but I believe in most failures carbon fiber structures lose their stiffness first (when delamination happens). That should be easily distinguishable when the structure is load bearing, as extra movement, creaks and rattles present the issue before the structure collapses completely.

To compare a 90's MTB's which was made out of soda-can quality aluminium alloy being jumped over and over again and forming stress fractures and a carbon fiber steerer collapsing when it goes over a small bump in the road and fails without warning is completely ridiculous. I don't need a marathon of 90's MTBs on YT, I was riding one then.

In the last four years I've had one carbon fibre fork fail on me, one seat stay junction and one seat post. My actual experince completely differs from your totally from your unsubstantiated opinion. The fork leg unzipped suddenly like a cheap pair of jeans over a road surface which had a slight bump, and the seat stay cracked because it took a hit from falling in a large pot hole. Zero warning, no creaks or visible giveaways. Only the seat post gave a warning of feeling odd.

If you want to win the internet by proving other people wrong and you right try coming in with some actual first hand personal experience, 2nd hand knowledge or data.

Could you tell us which brands those failures happened on, be interesting to hear, thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fork leg: Java
Seat stay bridge: Fuji SL
Seapost: Unbranded Chinese carbon post

[flying]

all those brands are 3rd rate . issue is more quality control at the factory vs design. buy garbage and lottery ticket
btw most threaded bb failures in the past occured because of wrong use of carbon in the aluminum bb area. btw Pinarello have always used threaded bb the last 10 years with no known failures.

Considering Fuji has been making bikes 53 years longer than Pinarello I would not call them 3rd rate

[kgt]

+1
Certainly the same quality as anything from Cannondale or Specialized or Merida or...

[TobinHatesYou]

all those brands are 3rd rate . issue is more quality control at the factory vs design. buy garbage and lottery ticket
btw most threaded bb failures in the past occured because of wrong use of carbon in the aluminum bb area. btw Pinarello have always used threaded bb the last 10 years with no known failures.

Considering Fuji has been making bikes 53 years longer than Pinarello I would not call them 3rd rate

It depends on time period. The Fuji you reference ceased to exist a long time ago. They went bankrupt. ASE/ASI bought their assets...and diluted the brand over decades, to the point where no IBD wanted to stock them and they were flooding the “omnichannel” with product. Of course they also went bankrupt in the fallout from Performance’s initial bankruptcy and now we really don’t know what’s next for the Fuji name.

There are multiple tiers in Chinese carbon manufacturing. There’s the top of the heap like Quest, Giant, Topkey, etc. Fuji’s manufacturing contracts exist in a tier just below that.

[TheRich]

Hi, I see you're arguing in good faith, that feature doesn't work here.

[flying]

all those brands are 3rd rate . issue is more quality control at the factory vs design. buy garbage and lottery ticket
btw most threaded bb failures in the past occured because of wrong use of carbon in the aluminum bb area. btw Pinarello have always used threaded bb the last 10 years with no known failures.

Considering Fuji has been making bikes 53 years longer than Pinarello I would not call them 3rd rate

It depends on time period. The Fuji you reference ceased to exist a long time ago.

Time Period..........Goes without saying & same holds true for exampled Pinarello which today is just a shell of its former Giovanni Pinarello self & what it exemplified even before it was sold to Catterton in 2016

Never the less I judge the bike as I see it for workmanship etc no matter what company makes it.

I was only refuting a claim that XYZ brands are 3rd rate & others are not.

[Lewn777]

all those brands are 3rd rate . issue is more quality control at the factory vs design. buy garbage and lottery ticket
btw most threaded bb failures in the past occured because of wrong use of carbon in the aluminum bb area. btw Pinarello have always used threaded bb the last 10 years with no known failures.

To compare a 90's MTB's which was made out of soda-can quality aluminium alloy being jumped over and over again and forming stress fractures and a carbon fiber steerer collapsing when it goes over a small bump in the road and fails without warning is completely ridiculous. I don't need a marathon of 90's MTBs on YT, I was riding one then.

In the last four years I've had one carbon fibre fork fail on me, one seat stay junction and one seat post. My actual experince completely differs from your totally from your unsubstantiated opinion. The fork leg unzipped suddenly like a cheap pair of jeans over a road surface which had a slight bump, and the seat stay cracked because it took a hit from falling in a large pot hole. Zero warning, no creaks or visible giveaways. Only the seat post gave a warning of feeling odd.

If you want to win the internet by proving other people wrong and you right try coming in with some actual first hand personal experience, 2nd hand knowledge or data.

Could you tell us which brands those failures happened on, be interesting to hear, thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fork leg: Java
Seat stay bridge: Fuji SL
Seapost: Unbranded Chinese carbon post

all those brands are 3rd rate . issue is more quality control at the factory vs design. buy garbage and lottery ticket
btw most threaded bb failures in the past occured because of wrong use of carbon in the aluminum bb area. btw Pinarello have always used threaded bb the last 10 years with no known failures.

To compare a 90's MTB's which was made out of soda-can quality aluminium alloy being jumped over and over again and forming stress fractures and a carbon fiber steerer collapsing when it goes over a small bump in the road and fails without warning is completely ridiculous. I don't need a marathon of 90's MTBs on YT, I was riding one then.

In the last four years I've had one carbon fibre fork fail on me, one seat stay junction and one seat post. My actual experince completely differs from your totally from your unsubstantiated opinion. The fork leg unzipped suddenly like a cheap pair of jeans over a road surface which had a slight bump, and the seat stay cracked because it took a hit from falling in a large pot hole. Zero warning, no creaks or visible giveaways. Only the seat post gave a warning of feeling odd.

If you want to win the internet by proving other people wrong and you right try coming in with some actual first hand personal experience, 2nd hand knowledge or data.

Could you tell us which brands those failures happened on, be interesting to hear, thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fork leg: Java
Seat stay bridge: Fuji SL
Seapost: Unbranded Chinese carbon post

How are Pinarello relevant to the conversation?
Their bikes are heavy and fill with water when it rains and are made in China, but maybe some are painted and/or assembled in Italy or Taiwan. They only use threaded BB's because team Sky mechanics inisisted. They are mostly made in the same Chinese factory as Cervelo, and are not some paragon of engineering perfection.