Dirty Kanza - EF Gone (Alternative) Racing

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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blaugrana
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm

by blaugrana

flying wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:48 pm
I would say the Ironman world championships have been doing just that since 1978 & is more than popular :wink:
Yeah, and how interesting is that to watch? And also, not the best example of accessibility, since it's one of the most elitist sports I can think of.

And related to this, that's also one of the reasons I am very skeptical of brands like Rapha when they say they are trying to make the sport more accessible. The biggest barrier of entry to cycling is still financial, and bikes aren't exactly getting cheaper (quite the opposite, actually). Then there are of course the few arrogant idiots who will look down on people they consider "unworthy" of joining their group ride and will easily drive novices away, but again, they often look down on people based on equipment (be it the bike or the clothes), so we are back to the financial side of things. After all, it's unlikely that a teenager without rich parents (or at least parents who are already cyclists) will get into the sport when there are plenty of alternatives that are basically free (or if actually competing, maybe only require buying a pair of appropriate shoes).

ichobi
Posts: 1003
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

But is it really expensive? It gets expensive when you want the best stuff. Young competitors are unlikely to be limited or disadvantaged by the gears they have. If they train well and are super strong a second hand tiagra equipped alloy bike wont be their first problem if they lose the race. One of the Thai national junior rider just won an ASEAN championship on a no name carbon bike with local brands wheels and hands me down 105 groupset. His whole bike is less than 800 usd. Granted, still not comparable to running or football but it is not always expensive either.

flying
Posts: 2115
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

blaugrana wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:56 am
flying wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:48 pm
I would say the Ironman world championships have been doing just that since 1978 & is more than popular :wink:
Yeah, and how interesting is that to watch? And also, not the best example of accessibility, since it's one of the most elitist sports I can think of.

And related to this, that's also one of the reasons I am very skeptical of brands like Rapha when they say they are trying to make the sport more accessible. The biggest barrier of entry to cycling is still financial,
Actually quite interesting to watch & accessibility is same as any grand tour. I have watched many both live & on TV/internet etc. While I no longer do Tri's I never thought it was elitist when I did. look at the actual number of competitors & see. It is quite grass roots with many,many smaller local events to take part in. In the USA I would guess more than pure road cycling events.

As for Rapha & what they represent I never liked them myself & did see them more as a elitist/club type hype with over priced products that were a form of buy into a "our club" mentality.

On cycling entry cost high? well I would say yes & no

But if the hype is set aside (as in needing some bling carbon newest edition) there are many great deals for new riders to grab. Of course your still going to spend
more than a department store bicycle but your getting something not comparable, A novice can get something nice for 1k or less ...yes not cheap but good quality :wink:

This is why the best thing that can happen to a new cyclist is to get advise from a long time cyclist that can see past all that hype you describe. Someone who can help a new
cyclist get kitted for a fair price & appreciate the beauty of cycling

AJS914
Posts: 3803
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

All high level junior sports in the US are expensive. Even low level sports have gotten out of hand. I know parents that spend $2,000 per season on softball.

I don't know about Europe but in the US, junior sports have become an arms race of resources. 30 years ago kids particpated on school teams. The best kids rose to the top and went on to county and state championships and so on up to college sports or the Olympics. Junior sports used to cost hardly anything. Coaches were funded through public schools.

Now young kids play for their school team, then they join a separate and expensive travel league in the off season. I say it's an arms race because if a family doesn't spend the extra money for private leagues and more playing time, the kid will never catch up.

At least in cycling, it's a bit more democratic. A naturally talented kid can train and race. If he wins, he'll move up and keep moving up. Yes, a bike and equipment can cost more than a pair of running shoes.

Orbital
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:52 am
Location: Pitt Meadows, BC

by Orbital

Yeah, aside from those people who seem to think cycling makes them exclusive somehow, there really isn’t much cost associated with the sport besides the initial bike purchase. It’s free to get out on the road and enjoy it.

I have at least as much money into hockey gear and skates and sticks as what I initially spent on my first road bike. But for the league fees I spend every year to play at least 1-2 time a week, I could purchase a very nicely equipped bike every year.

blaugrana
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm

by blaugrana

But we are still talking 1000€ for the bike, plus shoes, helmet and clothes just as the initial investment. And then tyres, chains, and other parts that wear (which you can cheap out on, but only up to a point), as well as either visits to the mechanic or doing it at home (which might require spending more on tools). It might not be the case for some cities in the US and some of the wealthiest regions in Europe, but everywhere else that leaves out the vast majority of teenagers. And I mean first world countries, because if you consider the rest, then it's even more out of reach.

n1ey
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:53 am

by n1ey

blaugrana wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:56 am
flying wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:48 pm
I would say the Ironman world championships have been doing just that since 1978 & is more than popular :wink:
Yeah, and how interesting is that to watch? And also, not the best example of accessibility, since it's one of the most elitist sports I can think of.

And related to this, that's also one of the reasons I am very skeptical of brands like Rapha when they say they are trying to make the sport more accessible. The biggest barrier of entry to cycling is still financial, and bikes aren't exactly getting cheaper (quite the opposite, actually). Then there are of course the few arrogant idiots who will look down on people they consider "unworthy" of joining their group ride and will easily drive novices away, but again, they often look down on people based on equipment (be it the bike or the clothes), so we are back to the financial side of things. After all, it's unlikely that a teenager without rich parents (or at least parents who are already cyclists) will get into the sport when there are plenty of alternatives that are basically free (or if actually competing, maybe only require buying a pair of appropriate shoes).
I find in my area that we live in spots that are not conducive to biking. Most of the shops don't actually have clothing, either. A beginner receives ZERO support.

Bill

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otoman
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Nashville

by otoman

blaugrana wrote: since it's one of the most elitist sports I can think of.
Polo, sailing, horse racing, fox hunting. Those are elitist. I know people that do/have done all four and you want to talk about elitist culture....

You’re not thinking hard enough. Cycling and triathlon are very grass roots.
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

blaugrana
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm

by blaugrana

otoman wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:45 pm
blaugrana wrote: since it's one of the most elitist sports I can think of.
Polo, sailing, horse racing, fox hunting. Those are elitist. I know people that do/have done all four and you want to talk about elitist culture....

You’re not thinking hard enough. Cycling and triathlon are very grass roots.
Well, yeah, those are extreme cases, but that's why I said "one of the most" and not "the most". And with Ironman, I think the registration fee for one race is somewhere over 500€, hardly what I would call grassroots. The average annual income of an Ironman triathlete is a quarter of a milion $, according to this: https://www.paulmichaeldavid.com/blog-2 ... -they-make.

AJS914
Posts: 3803
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Let's not debate this. Yes, cycling cost money. No question.

If one is super poor and a pair of running shoes is a big budget item then cycling is certainly out of the question.

flying
Posts: 2115
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

Well...actually this thread has veered so far from original intent....Of I thought it was a nice video so shared a link :wink:
Last edited by flying on Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TonyM
Posts: 3273
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

Anyway....

I was never a big fan of the EF team so far but now I do see them with other eyes

Let’s hope they can have their share at thee TdF...maybe Woods can make something big...

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