Let's chat about descending and handling

[Karvalo]

OK I was wrong. Modern MTB measurements are bigger than road bikes. Traditional MTB XC sizes are very similar, some bigger, but the stems are shorter and seats often lower so they seem smaller.

Right, so all the bullshit was for nothing.
Since you say you're all about the right way to behave, do you want to apologise for how constantly offensive you've been in trying to tell me I was wrong?

[Karvalo]

You could try explaining it instead of going straight to the personal attacks. You know, good example to the community and all that.

That wasn't aimed at you and I've explained further up why I feel Lewin777 is out of line, and the posts in other threads he has made in the last 24h and in PMs, need I continue as to why my tolerance has worn thin?

Ah, ok. Phew. No worries then. He has more than used up his benefit of the doubt allowance.

If you ask me, so have you. As evidenced by your thinking the slap was aimed at you. Which I thought it was as well. For good reason.

Really? Why? What exactly do you think I'm wrong about?

[TobinHatesYou]

Also on a moto, the entire rider is shifting position off to the side of the bike... say all 150-200lbs of him. Add the 400lbs of a moto and the extra width in the tires, and there’s a lot more mechanical grip to play with. So shifting your entire body on a moto probably does have an effect. Just sticking out your knees, barely any.

[Nefarious86]

That wasn't aimed at you and I've explained further up why I feel Lewin777 is out of line, and the posts in other threads he has made in the last 24h and in PMs, need I continue as to why my tolerance has worn thin?

Ah, ok. Phew. No worries then. He has more than used up his benefit of the doubt allowance.

If you ask me, so have you. As evidenced by your thinking the slap was aimed at you. Which I thought it was as well. For good reason.

Really? Why? What exactly do you think I'm wrong about?

Ok, I left you out of this but the last post and the fact that I'm not the only one thinking it shows your tone isn't much better that Lewin's was.

Also he has both posted in another thread and sent a PM through apologizing for the last couple of days of posting so how about we play nice, agree to take the conversation in a constructive direction and that way people don't need a weeks time out form the sand pit.

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[DOUG]

The comparisons between cornering on a moto and on a bicycle have their merits and there are cross overs but it is somewhat flawed IMO. For a start a moto weighs like 20 times more than a road bike so changes in your positioning have a much more muted effect compared to the bicycle. Check out MotoGp riders going through a hairpin and they're basically hanging off the side of the bike. You also have a massive amount of grip by comaprison even accounting for the additional weight and you can trail the brake and accelerate through the apex of the corner with the bike leaned over on a moto which you obviously cant do on bicycle.

Some of the techniques translate well and the basics still apply (tip in point, hitting the apex) but its a false equivalence.

As for all the MTB stuff above, yes MTB's are clearly very different in geo to road bikes and cornering technique on an XC bike on a ST is also very different. The reach numbers alone that Nefarious posted show this pretty clearly. Oh and if you're running the saddle on your XC bike lower than your road bike then you're doing it wrong. Pedalling is pedalling. They should be the same, if you need to get the saddle out of the way then that is why dropper posts exist.

[Nefarious86]

Light XC compatible dropper posts are the best invention of the last 10 years haha.

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[Karvalo]

Ok, I left you out of this but the last post and the fact that I'm not the only one thinking it shows your tone isn't much better that Lewin's was.

Sorry, but that's clearly not true. Lew has been constantly and deliberately outrageously offensive throughout this thread. 'Pathetic idiots' 'internet cancer' 'psycopaths' etc. And that's just the stuff he hasn't deleted.

All I've done is tell him he's clueless about geometry, and in no worse fashion than you have. How long's your holiday going to be?

Also he has both posted in another thread and sent a PM through apologizing for the last couple of days of posting so how about we play nice

He hasn't apologised to me, and the only relevant post he made in the other thread was to try and continue the argument

[Karvalo]

Oh and if you're running the saddle on your XC bike lower than your road bike then you're doing it wrong.

I know it's hard to follow because Lew was jumping from point to point so quickly, but I don't think anyone said XC riders were running lower saddles.

[Nefarious86]

I posted examples to point out the flaws in his arguments. You're welcome to keep going tho, I haven't given out any holidays yet this week.

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[Karvalo]

I posted examples to point out the flaws in his arguments.

Are you implying I didn't? Seriously?

[DOUG]

Oh and if you're running the saddle on your XC bike lower than your road bike then you're doing it wrong.

I know it's hard to follow because Lew was jumping from point to point so quickly, but I don't think anyone said XC riders were running lower saddles.

OK I was wrong. Modern MTB measurements are bigger than road bikes. Traditional MTB XC sizes are very similar, some bigger, but the stems are shorter and seats often lower so they seem smaller.

I agree, hard to follow but just thought I'd include this little nugget in case anyone missed it. Utter nonsense.

[Karvalo]

I agree, hard to follow but just thought I'd include this little nugget in case anyone missed it. Utter nonsense.

Well I never... apologies sir, you have sharper eyes than me!

[Lewn777]

Oh and if you're running the saddle on your XC bike lower than your road bike then you're doing it wrong.

I know it's hard to follow because Lew was jumping from point to point so quickly, but I don't think anyone said XC riders were running lower saddles.

OK I was wrong. Modern MTB measurements are bigger than road bikes. Traditional MTB XC sizes are very similar, some bigger, but the stems are shorter and seats often lower so they seem smaller.

I agree, hard to follow but just thought I'd include this little nugget in case anyone missed it. Utter nonsense.

What's utter nonsense?
Many people run XC saddles lower and many people run droppers on the trail bikes.

XC is a racing category and the basic entry level bike. Many people, mostly noobs but thousands even millions of them run lower saddles to be able to deal with obstacles when they find them. Whether they should do that is another point, in hardcore pro racing obviously not.

[RimClencher]

I've dragged a knee through shrubbery in CX to help me through a turn. On the assumption shrubbery and air share similar properties (I know, out on a limb here), maybe that's why a knee in the air feels good.

[Lewn777]

Some of the techniques translate well and the basics still apply (tip in point, hitting the apex) but its a false equivalence.

You sound like someone saying 'but a wheelie is just a pointless skill for show-offs'.

Drill down and the real reason is the insecurity that they can't do it themselves.