Let's chat about descending and handling

[Lewn777]

On a clean, dry road surface, most people just aren’t aware of how far they can lean a bike.

I also think a lot of people just have something in their brain that instictively tells them that if you lean over that you naturally fall to the ground. If i look at the 20 or so motorbikes outside in the car park, i would say around 15 of them will have an inch of unused rubber either side of the tyre. Fast forward a few months and they will have a nice flat spot rendering their tyre square. There must also be something that instictively tells them that low is bad. You and Nefarious' pics are good as it shows good low COG in the turn, yet i see a lot of people in the drops when i'm out and about, then when they get to a turn decide to sit bolt upright and move to the hoods, which has a double negative of slowing them right down and also should the bike give out from under them gives them a further height to fall from before meeting the ground.

There's some truth to people instinctively not leaning over too far but actually a lot is cognative dissonace. Obviously no moto rider wants to believe they're not really that good, but in the UK and maybe certain other countries people get mocked for having 'chicken strips' the patches of unworn rubber on their rear tire. They believed like I did when I was a new rider that I was pretty much maxed-out. Then someone mentioned 'chicken strips' and I endevoured to rid myself of them. I got the bike over to peg grinding knee drag angles in a parking lot and then realized just how far had been from maxed out and with a race machine the pros were probably another 10-20 degrees further over than I was. Some few mms or cms of chicken strips are inevitable on many kinds of bikes especially cruisers and to a lesser extent street bikes just because you're dragging the pegs before you can get rid of the whole strip.


Me in a parking lot the first time I ever really leaned a moto over properly, not great technique by any means. Those are MTB leg armour pads. Done track days since.

[Lewn777]

Yawn. Were you saying something?

Yes, that you have just tacitly admitted you were wrong about the point you've been arguing since your OP. Right?

And that you are still proveably clueless about MTB geometry if you think HTA is the only reason wheelbases are longer and STA is the only reason TTs are longer. Right?

I'm about to put you on the ignore list so don't waste your mosquito annoyance power bothering to write anything, maybe buzz off and suck someone else's blood, maybe next time you'll be able to prove yourself an even bigger douche than this time. I haven't even read your last two posts and will never read anything you post again. Stay safe in traffic.

[Karvalo]

I'm about to put you on the ignore list so don't waste your mosquito annoyance power bothering to write anything, maybe buzz off and suck someone else's blood, maybe next time you'll be able to prove yourself an even bigger douche than this time. I haven't even read your last two posts and will never read anything you post again. Stay safe in traffic.

That's a shame. Given the stated purpose of your thread it's ironic you're so resistant to learning anything.

[Nefarious86]

You realy are disgustingly ignorant to how wrong you are aren't you.

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[Karvalo]

You realy are disgustingly ignorant to how wrong you are aren't you.

You could try explaining it instead of going straight to the personal attacks. You know, good example to the community and all that.

[Nefarious86]

You realy are disgustingly ignorant to how wrong you are aren't you.

You could try explaining it instead of going straight to the personal attacks. You know, good example to the community and all that.

That wasn't aimed at you and I've explained further up why I feel Lewin777 is out of line, and the posts in other threads he has made in the last 24h and in PMs, need I continue as to why my tolerance has worn thin?

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[Karvalo]

You realy are disgustingly ignorant to how wrong you are aren't you.

You could try explaining it instead of going straight to the personal attacks. You know, good example to the community and all that.

That wasn't aimed at you and I've explained further up why I feel Lewin777 is out of line, and the posts in other threads he has made in the last 24h and in PMs, need I continue as to why my tolerance has worn thin?

Ah, ok. Phew. No worries then. He has more than used up his benefit of the doubt allowance.

[TobinHatesYou]

It's a hairpin into a pinch, coarse chip seal and plenty of defects. #sendit

Defects aside I think that kind of coarse surface is good for grip. Maybe harder to commit to though 'cos it really sucks if you fall on it

It’s hard to feel when you’re on the edge of grip on chip-seal. I try to feel the stutter in the tires/frame, listen to the sound of it, etc. As for the grip, does the grain really benefit narrow bicycle tires? Anecdotally it always feels like a I have better grip on smoother tarmac/bitumen.

[Calnago]

You realy are disgustingly ignorant to how wrong you are aren't you.

You could try explaining it instead of going straight to the personal attacks. You know, good example to the community and all that.

That wasn't aimed at you and I've explained further up why I feel Lewin777 is out of line, and the posts in other threads he has made in the last 24h and in PMs, need I continue as to why my tolerance has worn thin?

Ah, ok. Phew. No worries then. He has more than used up his benefit of the doubt allowance.

If you ask me, so have you. As evidenced by your thinking the slap was aimed at you. Which I thought it was as well. For good reason.

[Lewn777]

You realy are disgustingly ignorant to how wrong you are aren't you.

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There's nothing wrong with being wrong, it's a way we all learn.

The trick is to tell someone they are wrong in a way that doesn't seem like a celebration of that fact. It just makes people angry, get defensive and stubborn. Look at how a teacher tells a child they are wrong or a parent. They don't point their finger jump up and down and say 'nah nah na nah na you're wong and I'm clever'. That's the way a child behaves, usually prepubescent.

OK I was wrong. Modern MTB measurements are bigger than road bikes. Traditional MTB XC sizes are very similar, some bigger, but the stems are shorter and seats often lower so they seem smaller.

Maybe Karvalo could work on his tone a little and stop trying to hound/troll other posters we could all learn something.

[silvalis]

I thought sticking your knee out on a bicycle when cornering was considered bad technique.

[Lewn777]

I thought sticking your knee out on a bicycle when cornering was considered bad technique.

Tell Nibali he's wrong.
Hey Vincenzo, si sta ciclo di equitazione tecnica sbagliata.

[TobinHatesYou]

I thought sticking your knee out on a bicycle when cornering was considered bad technique.

It’s the same as on a moto...it basically has no effect on its own, though for some reason it feels reassuring. I drop my inside knee a little naturally just because that’s where it ends up without activating any muscles to pull it back in. And that’s apparently another thing, pulling the knee back in does change the CoG enough coming out of a turn to help right yourself, so it’s not so much about having the knee out in the corner, but bringing in back in exiting. Something like that.

What I don’t do is exaggerate any knee dragging technique. I don’t stick it out just to stick it out. I think the photos Nef and I posted illustrate it pretty well. There is some pointing of the knee, but really only because the inside crank is near TDC so the knee has to go somewhere. On a moto this wouldn’t be an issue.

[silvalis]

Yeah ok, I guess its the weight shift on a moto that actually does it. Which is a no no on a roadie

[Lewn777]

I thought sticking your knee out on a bicycle when cornering was considered bad technique.

It’s the same as on a moto...it basically has no effect on its own, though for some reason it feels reassuring. I drop my inside knee a little naturally just because that’s where it ends up without activating any muscles to pull it back in. And that’s apparently another thing, pulling the knee back in does change the CoG enough coming out of a turn to help right yourself, so it’s not so much about having the knee out in the corner, but bringing in back in exiting. Something like that.

What I don’t do is exaggerate any knee dragging technique. I don’t stick it out just to stick it out. I think the photos Nef and I posted illustrate it pretty well. There is some pointing of the knee, but really only because the inside crank is near TDC so the knee has to go somewhere. On a moto this wouldn’t be an issue.

That's absolutely correct. You don't really 'need' to stick a knee out at all. They've done moto testing and it's not really any quicker, some old school pros never dragged knees and they were totally competitive with guys that did.


It's just that it feels so right. The way Nibali is positioned on the bike is the way I like to feel and look entering a corner, or at least try to.

I'm not sure if the best pro riders have experience on motos or if they just have years on bicycles and gravitiate to the same/similar style from years of experience in cycles. It's just that they look like moto riders on cycles for sure.