Let's chat about descending and handling

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

Moderator: Moderator Team

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

How to descend....
Image
Description over. That was easy. :lol:

Watch some of the best in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZcxikw6wFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7WAKUZZGmQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2pMfwfSfh4
Last edited by Lewn777 on Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 6 times in total.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4163
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Jobst Brandt said the mantra of slow in, fast out is wrong if you’re aiming to corner reasonably fast. You want to be fast in, fast out by braking late and continuing to feather the brake just past the apex. If you’ve stopped braking before the apex, you’ve slowed too much.

Of course if you just want to descend at a pace you’re comfortable at, then yes slow to a “safe” speed before the apex.

I mainly go through 2 positions descending, top tube descending if the road is smooth and less technical, otherwise I just get in the drops with my ass on the saddle and bent elbows. If a road is shitty and steep, I might adopt a half-Pantani, but that’s pretty rare.

On a clean, dry road surface, most people just aren’t aware of how far they can lean a bike.

by Weenie


User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

DELETED
Last edited by Lewn777 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jugi
Posts: 538
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

It’s a question of how the corner’s apex is perceived. Is there a general definition of what that actually is? All I found was an explanation of apex being the ”highest point” or the ”tipping point” on a curve. In motorsport or cycling terms, should it be perceived as the point of lowest speed in the corner (= the optimal point for decelaration to stop and acceleration to start) or something else? The illustration in the 1st post implies it is infact the ”slowest” point in the corner, which is not necessarily the middle point / geometrically tightest point of the corner.

I find corners which are tightening up through the turn especially hard in this regard. If a general technique of ”straight line braking only” is used, it’s very hard to carry optimal speed up to the apex. If I try to carry as much speed up to the apex as I can, the riding line choice will be hard as it’s difficult to perceive where the ”tightest” point around the apex is. Many times I find myself feeling like I overshot the apex and have to carry on braking too late, when I should have chosen a different line and should already be accelerating.

Karvalo
Posts: 735
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Lewn777 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:54 am
Sometimes it can be worth going down a size and pushing the saddle rear-ward and putting on a slightly longer stem than stock, a smaller frame it’s believed by many can aid handling. A smaller frame will be lighter, stiffer and easier to control, this idea comes from experience, what pro road cyclists generally choose and by looking at the size of mountain bike frames. Have a look at the manufacturers’ size guide for example maybe a size 56 is recommended for a 6ft rider, but maybe they’d have more fun handling a 54. The 56 could be more comfortable for some people, and might suit newer riders or less flexible riders better.
That's nonsense. Lighter - who cares? There's no evidence I've ever seen that a lighter frame handles better, anyone who has tested it concludes that all else being as equal as possible heavier bikes are more composed.

Stiffer? Many frames these days are designed to either maintain or increase stiffness going up through the size range. Even if they're not the difference from one size to the next is miniscule. Far, far, far less than the range of stiffnesses from one bike design to the next. So if you can use any bike from the shop floor and be sure the handling is excellent, you can use any size that fits you and be sure the handling is excellent.

MTB's? MTBs are *f##k* massive these days. They've been getting bigger and bigger and bigger for years now. Pro DHers often use custom XXL frame sizes that the manufacturers dont even sell. Wheelbases are enormous. Frame reach numbers are gigantic and stems are tiny. The idea that MTB frames show small is better for handling is one that I can't comprehend.

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

DELETED
Last edited by Lewn777 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

jlok
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Karvalo wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:01 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:54 am
Sometimes it can be worth going down a size and pushing the saddle rear-ward and putting on a slightly longer stem than stock, a smaller frame it’s believed by many can aid handling. A smaller frame will be lighter, stiffer and easier to control, this idea comes from experience, what pro road cyclists generally choose and by looking at the size of mountain bike frames. Have a look at the manufacturers’ size guide for example maybe a size 56 is recommended for a 6ft rider, but maybe they’d have more fun handling a 54. The 56 could be more comfortable for some people, and might suit newer riders or less flexible riders better.
That's nonsense. Lighter - who cares? There's no evidence I've ever seen that a lighter frame handles better, anyone who has tested it concludes that all else being as equal as possible heavier bikes are more composed.

Stiffer? Many frames these days are designed to either maintain or increase stiffness going up through the size range. Even if they're not the difference from one size to the next is miniscule. Far, far, far less than the range of stiffnesses from one bike design to the next. So if you can use any bike from the shop floor and be sure the handling is excellent, you can use any size that fits you and be sure the handling is excellent.

MTB's? MTBs are *f##k* massive these days. They've been getting bigger and bigger and bigger for years now. Pro DHers often use custom XXL frame sizes that the manufacturers dont even sell. Wheelbases are enormous. Frame reach numbers are gigantic and stems are tiny. The idea that MTB frames show small is better for handling is one that I can't comprehend.
I think he's continuing the debate from the other thread about bike fitting. Let him keep going and more flaws would be revealed all by himself.

On the other hand, I agree with TBH's saying of fast in fast out.
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

DELETED
Last edited by Lewn777 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

DELETED
Last edited by Lewn777 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Karvalo
Posts: 735
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Lewn777 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:18 am
What are you talking about? You heard most 99% of people actually ride XC, trail and AM and are scared to ride enduro and DH?
XC bikes are getting bigger. Trail bikes are getting bigger. AM bikes are getting bigger. They're all getting bigger for the sole reason that bigger mountain bikes handle better. And by the way, isn't half your post about people not being able to descend right because they're scared? So why would you recommend following the equipment choice of scared people instead of competent people?
So what's a pro DHer really got to do with the equation? They're just motocross without an engine,
So what's any of your past experience got the do with the equation? They're motorbikes with an engine.
people win races with broken chains ffs.
Yes... because handling. This isn't a thread about pedalling, is it?
Most MTBers ride 17 and 19 inch frames. In cm that's 43cm and 48cm respectively. That's XXS XS in road bikes.
That's not how bike sizing works. How can you possibly feel qualified to give advice on sizing and geometry if you're that clueless about it? Here's a relevant stat - Scott's Spark XC bike vs their Addict road bike? The M (17") Spark is over 40mm longer in reach than the M (54cm) Addict. The Genius trail bike is over 50mm longer. So yeah, tell me again how 17" sizing proves small bikes handle better :roll:

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

DELETED
Last edited by Lewn777 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:16 am, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Leviathan
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Mallorca, Spain
Contact:

by Leviathan

Internet forums about how to descend a bike are like broken pencils.

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

DELETED

User avatar
silvalis
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:02 am
Location: Aus

by silvalis

Lol. what is going on in here.
Chasse patate

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 833
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

silvalis wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:21 am
Lol. what is going on in here.
Sorry, I misused this forum.
There's a large minority of pathetic keyboard warriors with tiny egos. Therefore you can ONLY start a post asking for help or advice, to massage the egos of these pathetic idiots. All they'll say is 'this is the best one ever, it's the one I've got'. So you have to sift through their written down mouth farts to find someone that actually knows what they're talking about. I'd take it personally but I've seen them shred the opinions of very well informed well meaning nice posters.

They have a percieved herd mentality of what's 'right' or 'wrong'. Most of this is cut and pasted from other websites and totally out of date. Like 'but Sheldon Brown said .....'
No original thinking or discussion is allowed, no irrelevant side point is too small of an infraction on which to slice the Aorta. Walking internet cancer and a waste of oxygen.

But hey-ho the weather is nice and I'll be riding tomorrow. :thumbup:

by Weenie


Locked
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post