a Three-and-a-half season wardrobe. Possible? How?

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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robeambro
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Hi all,

For various reasons (saving money, trying to be a bit more minimalistic and save up some space, did I already mention saving money?) I would like to build a cycling wardrobe that is based on SS jerseys, layered up appropriately according to the season, and such jerseys would be worn for most of the year. Before you start shouting at me, let me give you some background. Once you've read it, you are free to shout if you wish to do so.

I am currently living in the Netherlands but probably moving back to Scotland in a few months - I know the climate already, but didn't really cycle when I used to live there. As most of you will know, it is fairly wet (ok that's quite of an understatement) and chilly. But doesn't really stay below 0C an awful lot, I seem to recall. And if it does, I won't necessarily be out riding often. I want to point out that I do have one LS heavy winter jersey which I can use in these occasions, so if the temps dip below zero, I am covered. I just would like to avoid buying other LS jerseys that are too warm for summer and/or too light for winter.

So, I am investigating the possibility of going out nearly throughout the year (aside those coldest weeks of winter), up until say when temps are at around +1/+2C, just by using SS jerseys layered up appropriately with other accessories. If this target is unrealistic, I'd settle for a threshold of ~ +5C, which I'm sure should be more manageable with appropriate layering.

Thoughts? Possible, or not? And, how can I make this work?

What I want to avoid is to get thermal SS jerseys (Gabba?) that would not be necessarily wearable during summer (18/20+ C, usually up to 25 but could rarely go higher) otherwise this kinda defeats the purpose of having a set of SS jerseys to be worn throughout the year, so the idea is let other garments do the heavy lifting, so to speak, when it comes to fighting against the elements. On top I would wear a Shakedry jacket, so that should keep me dry when it rains.

I'm thinking of the following:

- heavy-ass baselayers (maybe Merino, but I'm kinda allergic to wool, so not sure how that would work. Might be fine though. Any suggestions?)
- thermal arm warmers (any suggestions?)
- a warmish and windproof gilet (any suggestions?)
- very good gloves and overshoes that would keep the extremities dry and toasty (any suggestions, and what kind of gloves would be best, neoprene maybe?)
- other must-have items? skullcap? what about socks? what else?

RTW
in the industry
Posts: 3527
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:32 pm

by RTW

Why? I mean I’ve read what you’ve written and I don’t understand. Just get the appropriate clothing. You should never wear more than 2 layers (3 if one is a shell) anyway, so why force yourself into wasting one of those layers when it’s cold by insisting it’s a summer garment?
Your cycling kit is one size too big!

by Weenie


CarlosFerreiro
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:41 pm
Location: Shetland, Scotland

by CarlosFerreiro

I'm not sure if it works for all of Scotland's weather, but up here I essentially have winter kit and summer kit and cover the gaps (unusually cold winter, in-between spring & autumn) with mixing and matching. My Stolen Goat Orkan long sleeve gets used at least some of the time over a 6 month window ;)

DartanianX
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:00 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

by DartanianX

I’d look at the following;

Rapha pro team long sleeve thermal base layer.

Rapha pro team race cape.

Rapha pro team midweight SS Jersey.

Rapha brevet or pro team insulated gilet.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

guyc
Posts: 1006
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:40 am
Location: Hampshire, England
Contact:

by guyc

This makes no sense. Buy the right kit for the right seasons.

robeambro
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

DartanianX wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:12 am
I’d look at the following;

Rapha pro team long sleeve thermal base layer.

Rapha pro team race cape.

Rapha pro team midweight SS Jersey.

Rapha brevet or pro team insulated gilet.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks. I got half an idea what company you work for :mrgreen:

Your insulated gilet and the base layer were on my radar already.

iheartbianchi
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:17 am

by iheartbianchi

I will just say that spring/summer/fall is pretty straight forward. Arm warmers, knee warmers, gilet, etc.

Winter is where it's tough, and if you're not careful, you could easily waste a lot of money on overpriced cycling specific clothes (for some reason cycling gear is more expensive!). If the coldest weather you're going to encounter is around 0 celsius, all you really need are:

-long bib shorts (thermal ones are probably too think, but just my personal preference)
-shoe covers
-get a cheap thick longsleeve dri-fit or similar shirt from someplace like Nike, Addidas, wherever really
-get a thinner longsleeve dri-fit or similar shirt to wear underneath
-a decent water-resistant sports jacket (can be from anywhere)
-one of those pull-over neck scarves that you can pull up to cover your mouth if necessary
-some insulated gloves
-a skullcap or headband that ensures coverage of your ears

Voila. With the exception of the bibs and shoe covers, you can probably buy the rest at a sporting goods store. Nobody cares what you're wearing in the cold winter months! The most important thing is that you're out there, you're warm and comfortable, and that you're highly visible to cars. So avoid the tempation to go all black or dark.
Bianchi Oltre XR4
Celeste Matte
Campy SR 11spd mechanical
Bora Ultra 50 tubs
Viseon 5D / stock bits and parts

Bianchi Specialissima Pantani Edition
Campy SR / Chorus 11spd mechanical
Fulcrum Racing Speed 35 tubs
FSA / Deda bits and parts

robertbb
Posts: 1051
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

I'm there with you @robeambro, having recently gone through a "wardrobe rationalisation and consolidation" I was able to arrive at a set-up similar to what you describe.

Obviously everyone feels heat/cold differently and lives in different climates, but here in Melbourne (which gets 6 seasons, sometimes all within a 20 minute period :lol:) the following works for me:

Base layers (always wear a base layer no matter how hot!) :smartass: :
20degrees and up: Very light mesh layer, for the hottest of days. I use the Pearl Izumi Pro SL light base layer.
10-20: Midweight no sleeve base layer. I use the Assos skinfoil 1.4 summer (not the full mesh one, the slightly heavier summer one).
0-10: Mid to heavy-ish weight short sleeve base layer. I use the Assos skinfoil 2.4 spring/fall (I believe in Assos' new numbering scheme it is 2.3)

Jerseys:
20 degrees and up: Pearl Izumi Elite pursuit SPD jersey. This has a UPF of 50+ which is crucial (I refuse to buy hot summer jerseys that have no UPF rating - should be mandatory)
10-20 degrees: Rapha Pro team midweight jersey. This is their "heaviest" short sleeve pro jersey, and it's design for transitional seasons. Does exactly what it says on the tin - Exceptionally good fabric that really does maintain your body temperature on "in-between" days. Pairs beautifully with the Assos 2.4 SS skinfoil!

Shorts:
I really only have one pair - pearl izumi pro. It has a single piece flat top sheet (similar to Assos chamois) and it's the best I've found anywhere. Check out their "chamois school" videos; lots of work has gone into these and it shows.

Warmers:
20 degrees and up: Either nothing, or Pearl Izumi summer sleeves (UPF50+ and also with coldblack/icefil to help keep you cool on scorching days - really works!)
10-20 degrees: thin merino arm warmers, thin merino leg warmers
0-10 degrees: Pearl izumi elite thermal arm warmers, leg warmers and tights. I find these the softest, warmest and best fitting - thick roubaix fabric.

Head:
20 degrees and up: nothing
10-20 degrees: Assos robofoil
0-10 degrees: Assos fugu winter cap

Gilet:
20 degrees and up: nothing (but I take a hotpack 5 long sleeve just in case*, unless you just know you're not going to need anything else)
10-20: Light-ish gilet with wind blocking front, some level of heat retention but also good breathability at the back. I chose an Endura pro sl light gilet.
5-20: Insulated gilet, with something like primaloft or polartec alpha. I use an Endura pro sl primaloft gilet.
0-5: Fleece jacket. I like the Rapha core winter jacket. Just a basic heavyweight fleece piece, but impeccable fit and cost effective. Can be worn over the top of both the insulated gilet and the arm warmers as well if necessary.

Out of the above, almost everything can be mixed and matched.

I've left feet and gloves out - everyone is so different here it's probably not worth telling you what I chose.

*Packable sportful hotpack is my go-to outer shell in all conditions in case of showers (I never intentionally go out in the heavy rain), but I am on the lookout for a light and packable *stretch-woven* shell made with something like schoeller fabric. Stretch woven is key - membranes suck.

If it's less than 0 outside, I hit the turbo.

RTW
in the industry
Posts: 3527
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:32 pm

by RTW

iheartbianchi wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:22 am
I will just say that spring/summer/fall is pretty straight forward. Arm warmers, knee warmers, gilet, etc.

Winter is where it's tough, and if you're not careful, you could easily waste a lot of money on overpriced cycling specific clothes (for some reason cycling gear is more expensive!). If the coldest weather you're going to encounter is around 0 celsius, all you really need are:

-long bib shorts (thermal ones are probably too think, but just my personal preference)
-shoe covers
-get a cheap thick longsleeve dri-fit or similar shirt from someplace like Nike, Addidas, wherever really
-get a thinner longsleeve dri-fit or similar shirt to wear underneath
-a decent water-resistant sports jacket (can be from anywhere)
-one of those pull-over neck scarves that you can pull up to cover your mouth if necessary
-some insulated gloves
-a skullcap or headband that ensures coverage of your ears

Voila. With the exception of the bibs and shoe covers, you can probably buy the rest at a sporting goods store. Nobody cares what you're wearing in the cold winter months! The most important thing is that you're out there, you're warm and comfortable, and that you're highly visible to cars. So avoid the tempation to go all black or dark.
While some of this is very true, pertaining to the outdoor products being okay, that is all they going to be. Cycling garments have very different functions on your front and on your back. On the upper body, the front should be short in the torso and tight across the shoulders (pulling them in). The back will be longer with more material across the shoulders. When you round your back and move your shoulders closer together to assume the cycling position, there is limited excess fabric at the front, and the back fits around you. Do this with outdoor jackets, and you will have excess (read flappy / noisy) material at the front. You may have it too short at the back.

This is before we talk about exhausting heat, and / or weather protection for winds of 40mph needed on the front, but not on the back.
Your cycling kit is one size too big!

iheartbianchi
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:17 am

by iheartbianchi

RTW wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:08 am

While some of this is very true, pertaining to the outdoor products being okay, that is all they going to be. Cycling garments have very different functions on your front and on your back. On the upper body, the front should be short in the torso and tight across the shoulders (pulling them in). The back will be longer with more material across the shoulders. When you round your back and move your shoulders closer together to assume the cycling position, there is limited excess fabric at the front, and the back fits around you. Do this with outdoor jackets, and you will have excess (read flappy / noisy) material at the front. You may have it too short at the back.

This is before we talk about exhausting heat, and / or weather protection for winds of 40mph needed on the front, but not on the back.
If you can afford it, yeah cycling-specific apparel is the best for the summer. But I find winter cycling gear to be especially egregiously priced and have very limited use outside of cycling (as you pointed out, there weird shapes and long back/short front don't look good off a bike). And to be perfectly honest, cycling clothes manufacturers can be rank amateurish when it comes to winter clothing compared to companies that make have been making winter sports clothing for decades. I use the same layering shirts for winter cycling as I do for skiing in the alps (Nike dri-fit), the same lightweight ski gloves that I use on spring ski days (they're actually cross-country gloves), and when it's REALLY cold (negative 10 celcius or colder) I'll actually wear my ski goggles as they keep your eyes warm :) I'll also throw on a lightweight goretex outershell that I also use for skiing. Is there more air resistance? Sure, but it's not like skiiers don't care about flapping clothes either so the gear is already pretty aero, and I'm not exactly racing so I don't really care about losing some watts.

The important thing in the winter is to get out there and ride and in the winter time, there's nothing worse than being cold and miserable!
Bianchi Oltre XR4
Celeste Matte
Campy SR 11spd mechanical
Bora Ultra 50 tubs
Viseon 5D / stock bits and parts

Bianchi Specialissima Pantani Edition
Campy SR / Chorus 11spd mechanical
Fulcrum Racing Speed 35 tubs
FSA / Deda bits and parts

RTW
in the industry
Posts: 3527
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:32 pm

by RTW

Completely agree with you. I just find it odd that people spend more money on things which will make no difference to their experience (buying DA over Ultegra, or the top of the line shoes, frame over the tiny bit heavier version or whatever), while saving money on things which you certainly will feel the difference in experience (correct clothing, fitting correctly, correct bike fit etc).

But people derive value in different ways. It surprises me how many people spend a lot on their bike, and then clearly save money on their clothing. They will buy the top of the line helmet though, and also find £££ to spend on Oakleys. :noidea:

It's like people who spend loads on money on a car, but have a super tatty house / home.
Your cycling kit is one size too big!

robeambro
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

iheartbianchi wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:22 am
I will just say that spring/summer/fall is pretty straight forward. Arm warmers, knee warmers, gilet, etc.

Winter is where it's tough, and if you're not careful, you could easily waste a lot of money on overpriced cycling specific clothes (for some reason cycling gear is more expensive!). If the coldest weather you're going to encounter is around 0 celsius, all you really need are:

-long bib shorts (thermal ones are probably too think, but just my personal preference)
-shoe covers
-get a cheap thick longsleeve dri-fit or similar shirt from someplace like Nike, Addidas, wherever really
-get a thinner longsleeve dri-fit or similar shirt to wear underneath
-a decent water-resistant sports jacket (can be from anywhere)
-one of those pull-over neck scarves that you can pull up to cover your mouth if necessary
-some insulated gloves
-a skullcap or headband that ensures coverage of your ears

Voila. With the exception of the bibs and shoe covers, you can probably buy the rest at a sporting goods store. Nobody cares what you're wearing in the cold winter months! The most important thing is that you're out there, you're warm and comfortable, and that you're highly visible to cars. So avoid the tempation to go all black or dark.
Thanks!

Re: legs, I have cycled through last winter with mostly bibshorts and leg warmers! When above 0C, it is just fine for me, no issues whatsoever. My Assos shorts were a bit better than others in this regard.

Re: baselayer, I stumbled upon the Brynje Super Thermo, which was also given a lot of praise on Bike Radar (and I'm pretty sure they weren't really pressured into giving a good review as it happens with the big brands..), but will also consider others from Adidas etc if necessary.

Regarding gloves.. I have found it really difficult to find satisfying ones. I've tried skiing "lobster" gloves, but those were plain annoying as they restricted movement, and they also didn't quite keep my hands warm enough, especially on wet days.
I am considering trying neoprene gloves as they should isolate better from wind and water. But I've read mixed reviews about these..

robertbb wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:47 am
I'm there with you @robeambro, having recently gone through a "wardrobe rationalisation and consolidation" I was able to arrive at a set-up similar to what you describe.

Obviously everyone feels heat/cold differently and lives in different climates, but here in Melbourne (which gets 6 seasons, sometimes all within a 20 minute period :lol:) the following works for me:

Base layers (always wear a base layer no matter how hot!) :smartass: :
20degrees and up: Very light mesh layer, for the hottest of days. I use the Pearl Izumi Pro SL light base layer.
10-20: Midweight no sleeve base layer. I use the Assos skinfoil 1.4 summer (not the full mesh one, the slightly heavier summer one).
0-10: Mid to heavy-ish weight short sleeve base layer. I use the Assos skinfoil 2.4 spring/fall (I believe in Assos' new numbering scheme it is 2.3)

Jerseys:
20 degrees and up: Pearl Izumi Elite pursuit SPD jersey. This has a UPF of 50+ which is crucial (I refuse to buy hot summer jerseys that have no UPF rating - should be mandatory)
10-20 degrees: Rapha Pro team midweight jersey. This is their "heaviest" short sleeve pro jersey, and it's design for transitional seasons. Does exactly what it says on the tin - Exceptionally good fabric that really does maintain your body temperature on "in-between" days. Pairs beautifully with the Assos 2.4 SS skinfoil!

Shorts:
I really only have one pair - pearl izumi pro. It has a single piece flat top sheet (similar to Assos chamois) and it's the best I've found anywhere. Check out their "chamois school" videos; lots of work has gone into these and it shows.

Warmers:
20 degrees and up: Either nothing, or Pearl Izumi summer sleeves (UPF50+ and also with coldblack/icefil to help keep you cool on scorching days - really works!)
10-20 degrees: thin merino arm warmers, thin merino leg warmers
0-10 degrees: Pearl izumi elite thermal arm warmers, leg warmers and tights. I find these the softest, warmest and best fitting - thick roubaix fabric.

Head:
20 degrees and up: nothing
10-20 degrees: Assos robofoil
0-10 degrees: Assos fugu winter cap

Gilet:
20 degrees and up: nothing (but I take a hotpack 5 long sleeve just in case*, unless you just know you're not going to need anything else)
10-20: Light-ish gilet with wind blocking front, some level of heat retention but also good breathability at the back. I chose an Endura pro sl light gilet.
5-20: Insulated gilet, with something like primaloft or polartec alpha. I use an Endura pro sl primaloft gilet.
0-5: Fleece jacket. I like the Rapha core winter jacket. Just a basic heavyweight fleece piece, but impeccable fit and cost effective. Can be worn over the top of both the insulated gilet and the arm warmers as well if necessary.

Out of the above, almost everything can be mixed and matched.

I've left feet and gloves out - everyone is so different here it's probably not worth telling you what I chose.

*Packable sportful hotpack is my go-to outer shell in all conditions in case of showers (I never intentionally go out in the heavy rain), but I am on the lookout for a light and packable *stretch-woven* shell made with something like schoeller fabric. Stretch woven is key - membranes suck.

If it's less than 0 outside, I hit the turbo.
Wow thanks that's a lot of stuff right there!

Noted on the gilets. Definitely worth considering two of them, one lighter and one warmer.

I am still curious to hear about your gloves choice though!

robertbb
Posts: 1051
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Gloves = gripgrab primavera merino. On their own for mid-temp days and with a thick and windblocking liner underneath on colder days.

I can't stand stitched gloves for cooler months - they've gotta be knitted if you want proper dexterity and lever feel. Very difficult to get stitched gloves right.

If RTW is still reading this thread - why doesn't Assos do tubular knitted gloves? 1.3, 2.3 and 3.3...... ?

RTW
in the industry
Posts: 3527
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:32 pm

by RTW

I’m not sure to be honest. I used to wear knitted gloves (Defeet) but now I have ASSOS. Can’t say I miss my old kit.

I liked Lobster gloves too (Pearl Izumi) but also found them a little restrictive. Our Bonka (or the new Winter Ultraz Glove) is every bit as warm, but quite thin and allows individual finger movements. Important in the era of Di2 more than pre that.
Your cycling kit is one size too big!

by Weenie


peted76
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:30 pm

by peted76

I'm not sure I can add much to the above, but I'm sorta with you on the reducing kit idea.. I have four staple items which with varying combo's see me through any cold or nippy weather in winter, spring, autumn.
1x Rapha Merino Long Sleeve base layer
1x Rapha Classic Long Sleeve Jersey
1x Assos Skull cap (covers ears and makes you look like a cosmonaught!)
1x Shakedry jacket

I'm no rapha fanboi, but I won't hear a bad word about the items above.
It's also the shakedry jacket which turns the other garments into 'deep winter' or 'wet' riding capable.

Gloves wise, I hate neoprene, lighter windproof gloves are my preference, if it's cold, I'll put mitts over the top, if it's 'icy cold' then it's ski glove weather.

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