OT: DWR clothing and environmental harm

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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jlok
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

LouisN wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:46 pm
jlok wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:51 am
No matter how environmentally friendly a product the capitalists suggest, reduction should be the best way to conserve the nature. Buy nice, dont buy twice.
Does that include bikes :P ? .....

Louis :)
Yes, so... don't buy the same bike twice :)
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

robertbb
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

robeambro wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:20 pm
robertbb wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:45 pm
Yes, Gore Shakedry has as DWR applied.
Are you sure? I seem to recall that Shakedry was "naturally water resistant" and needed no DWR as a consequence.
If a fabric has no membrane, it needs a DWR applied to shed water.

Some tightly woven fabrics will shed some water without a membrane or DWR, but not very much.

by Weenie


robeambro
Posts: 465
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

robertbb wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:24 am
robeambro wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:20 pm
robertbb wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:45 pm
Yes, Gore Shakedry has as DWR applied.
Are you sure? I seem to recall that Shakedry was "naturally water resistant" and needed no DWR as a consequence.
If a fabric has no membrane, it needs a DWR applied to shed water.

Some tightly woven fabrics will shed some water without a membrane or DWR, but not very much.
I don’t know, all of their marketing seems to suggest that their wonder material does not require DWS.

For example, here’s an excerpt:

Any jacket can be made waterproof, it is its breathability performance that makes the jacket. I perspire heavily on effort, so keeping comfortable on cold and/or wet winter rides isn’t easy, pushing the limits of any jacket’s moisture management capabilities. Long mountain descents in the winter have always been a case of bracing myself for a lengthy stint of stinging wind chill until the trail heads back up. With the usual waterproof jackets, breathability is significantly compromised once the outer wets out (due to the DWR wearing off). Shakedry removes all of that. As water permanently beads off the jacket’s surface, optimal breathability is constantly maintained and is better than any other jacket I have worn. Mud splatters can simply be wiped off the jacket, wash it occasionally and that’s it. No reproofing required. Genius.

Discodan
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

Shake dry has no outer fabric, the membrane is the outer layer, so requires no DWR. Any material with a fabric outer layer will require DWR to maintain breathability.


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robertbb
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Does shakedry have a published breathability rating? I thought there was inherent limitation in breathability of all membranes - regardless if they are sandwiched beween layers of fabric or if the membrane *is* the outer layer itself

robeambro
Posts: 465
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

robertbb wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 10:50 am
Does shakedry have a published breathability rating? I thought there was inherent limitation in breathability of all membranes - regardless if they are sandwiched beween layers of fabric or if the membrane *is* the outer layer itself
Whilst I don’t know of any rating, from what I’ve heard breathability is superb - the only downside of this material is its fragility. In fact, it would lacerate/damage more easily than others, and Gore goes as far as to suggest you not use a backpack while wearing it.

And of course since there is no outer layer, the jacket offers virtually no warmth, so you’d need to dress accordingly underneath if it’s cold.

Anyway, all in all, it *seems* like Shakedry could be more environmentally friendly than other DWR garments. I wish we could get some official source to comment on this.

robertbb
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

I'm very interested. I'd try it out but it only appears to come in black, which is a bit dumb (unless the manufacturing process means it has to be black...).

Ornot has brought out a thing called the magic shell which is apparently a new and updated version of Polartec Neoshell... not sure if the technology is similar. Also only available in black.

If a manufacturer doesn't publish waterproofness and breathability ratings, I'm skeptical.

Discodan
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

Yes, the shakedry can't come in other colours (yet) as there's no fabric to dye.

The statement about providing less insulation isnt quite correct, it's the air impermeability of the membrane that keeps you warm, not a fabric layer on the outside. Convection is the dominant heat transfer mechanism not conduction. A fabric layer on the inside can help but few cycling jackets will have that.

I wouldn't be too worried about the fragility of the fabrics, gore has very stringent standards for durability so they are typically talking about years of use with heavy backpacks

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robeambro
Posts: 465
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Discodan wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 9:36 am

I wouldn't be too worried about the fragility of the fabrics, gore has very stringent standards for durability so they are typically talking about years of use with heavy backpacks

Well, no. It clearly says "NO BACKPACK USAGE" at the bottom of this page. I don't think they'd say it if it could last "years with heavy backpacks".
https://www.gorewear.com/eu/nl-en/gore- ... 00094.html

Vagabond
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:08 am
Location: Washington State with brief stays in the Great Plains

by Vagabond

LouisN wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:24 pm
Maybe you should have written in your title the chemicals involved in environmental harm and not the water repelling treatment on garment itself.
For example, here's what Patagonia did with the "problem":
https://www.patagonia.com/blog/2015/03/our-dwr-problem/

Louis :)
I love Patagonia. Their ethos over greed gives me a small glimmer of hope for the ultimate survival of mankind. I've been a supporter of their business ever since I was successful enough to actually buy nice outdoor gear. One of my other passsions is surfing and Patagonia is leading the way in plant based rubber for wetsuits.
Colnago e Campagnolo

Vagabond
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:08 am
Location: Washington State with brief stays in the Great Plains

by Vagabond

Shrike wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:29 pm
People look at us like we’re all self-absorbed, self-righteous plant based Durianrider worshippers that compete over who has the lowest carbon footprint 😎
Mmmmm. The banana only diet. I'm not sure a year cramp free is worth all the other side effects.
Colnago e Campagnolo

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