Some manufacturers forcing pros onto disk brakes for the 2019 season

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TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

MoPho wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:25 am

I wasn't referring to the textured rim noise. Rim brakes squeal for the same reason disc brakes squeal, poor set up. If the pads aren't toe'd correctly they can get loud. Point being noisy brakes aren't isolated to disc
I've been on many a group ride where there is someone with their rim brakes squealling just as loud as a poorly set up disc brake. I've also had my rim brakes squeal from time to time when they get used hard and get hot on carbon wheels.
Disc brakes do get noisy in the wet, but I have found it usually goes away after you've heated them up a bit. It's been a long time since I've been in the rain on my road bike, but MTB I did a really nasty wet and muddy ride a few weeks ago, and my disc brakes only got noisy a few times. I was expecting it to be worse.

Yeah, I remember my XTR M950 pAraLleLoGrAM v-brakes squealing like mad until I toed them in. Ah the 90s. I figured modern road calipers and pad compounds addressed most of these issues even on poorly set-up brakes.

But yeah, as it turns out, choosing the right pads matters a lot. I wonder how many people with squealing, pulsing disc brakes also didn't properly run through the bedding process?

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dastott
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by dastott

Wonder if the top names on these brands will actually use disc brakes for the races they really target - Nibali (Giro/Tour), Valverde (Vuelta), Sagan (Flanders & Roubaix), Quintana (Tour), Landa (Giro) etc.? So far no big GC rider has adopted discs.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Bahrain-Merida and Movistar are not forcing riders to use discs (TDU coverage will prove this,) so the only one on your list is Sagan...and Sagan was already on disc last year. There is no rim-brake version of the current Venge.

The teams all-in on disc are the Specialized teams, Katusha and Trek...with the Trek team members voting to use the disc bikes when given a choice last year.

e: Not entirely sure about DiData, but it does look like they might be in the all disc camp too.

flying
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

spdntrxi wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:43 am
MoPho wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:34 am
How dare the manufacturers require the riders they employ to use what they sell! :noidea:
this... it's a job afterall.

Yes it is a job but it is a sport...Racers have a very short shelf life to gain results...They race & confidence in equipment is a BIG part of their mental game.

Also in this case it is not like the manufacturers/sponsors of the bikes cannot offer their racers the choice.
What is better for the brand...a racer with confidence doing well on
the brand or a racer force fed a product they don't want & now without confidence doing less well on the brand?

Yes Manufacturers sponsor race teams to sell bikes...

This whole disc debate is bigger than disc vs rim calipers. For instance Go look at what Fausto Pinarello has said about it.

"The big brands want to push people towards disc brakes because
that way there are fewer bikes design options out there and so they
can dominate the market even more. If everyone is on disc brakes,
then it's easier for them. It doesn't work that way for us,"
Pinarello tells Cyclingnews, unafraid to ruffle the feathers of his rivals in the high-end bike market.

beanbiken
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Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

^^^^^^^
Yes all most of us want is freedom to choose. Hopefully pinarello and some of the others will continue to give us the choice for as long as rim brakes are manufactured. Personally for me disc brakes would be advantageous on maybe 5% of my rides. I’m definitely not against them but I don’t want to be told that my next bike has to be disc.....

BB
BB

Coffee & carbon

robertbb
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by robertbb

Not sure Movistar are forcing their riders onto disc. The pic of Movistar rider and bike in Adelaide was rim brake (with EPS 12s)...

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

robertbb wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:35 am
Not sure Movistar are forcing their riders onto disc. The pic of Movistar rider and bike in Adelaide was rim brake (with EPS 12s)...

I don't think any Movistar riders are running disc at the TDU. Bahrain-Merida is split with the Reactos being disc. Every DiData BMC, mostly Teammachines, I saw in media coverage have discs.

MoPho
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Location: NorCal

by MoPho

flying wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:24 am
[

Yes it is a job but it is a sport...Racers have a very short shelf life to gain results...They race & confidence in equipment is a BIG part of their mental game.

Also in this case it is not like the manufacturers/sponsors of the bikes cannot offer their racers the choice.
What is better for the brand...a racer with confidence doing well on
the brand or a racer force fed a product they don't want & now without confidence doing less well on the brand?

Yes Manufacturers sponsor race teams to sell bikes...

This whole disc debate is bigger than disc vs rim calipers. For instance Go look at what Fausto Pinarello has said about it.

"The big brands want to push people towards disc brakes because
that way there are fewer bikes design options out there and so they
can dominate the market even more. If everyone is on disc brakes,
then it's easier for them. It doesn't work that way for us,"
Pinarello tells Cyclingnews, unafraid to ruffle the feathers of his rivals in the high-end bike market.

Part of being pro means you suck it up and adapt to the equipment you are given and act as a team player, that's why it is a job and not a hobby. You are signing up to be a part of the marketing machine, don't like it, stay amateur and ride what you want.
If merely having disc brakes is going to keep you from winning a race, you weren't going to win anyway. Cycling is not like motorsports where the equipment makes a significant performance difference. Also, it's not like a pro is showing up at a race on a bike they've never ridden before, presumably they have done lots of training time on the bike and are familiar with how it rides

In that same interview Fausto also said that high performance bikes don't need disc brakes and then a month later came out with a disc brake F10. I moonlight at a friends shop that sells Pinarellos and 90% we sold last year were disc. Two we sold with rim brakes went to guys who also had the disc version but wanted to transfer old parts to have a back up bike. In fact the rim brake bike I mentioned earlier was a Pinarello we can't seem to get rid of, so we will see how long Fausto is singing that tune :lol:


.
Last edited by MoPho on Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

flying
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by flying

MoPho wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:57 am


Part of being pro means you suck it up and adapt to the equipment you are given and act as a team player, that's why it is a job and not a hobby.
Sounds good
How many years did you spend as a pro?

MoPho
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Location: NorCal

by MoPho

flying wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:08 am

Sounds good
How many years did you spend as a pro?
Nine :lol:


Because you have to be a pro rider to be able to know this, right? :roll:


I know because I am a professional at a job that many people do as a hobby, I am fimiliar with the difference between being paid to make things work with what I am dealt vs being able to use and do what ever you want because there is no pressure to perform


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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I mean Sagan could choose to throw a tantrum and not ride the Venge, but that wouldn't do him any good. So yeah, he has to adapt because I don't think Specialized is going to make him a rim-brake "new Venge." If Sagan is on a disc Tarmac for non-flat stages this year, that will be a pretty good indication of who bows to whom.

Jugi
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by Jugi


MoPho wrote: I know because I am a professional at a job that many people do as a hobby, I am fimiliar with the difference between being paid to make things work with what I am dealt vs being able to use and do what ever you want because there is no pressure to perform
I would have serious issues with the hardware if I were to sign a pro contract:

- Saddle, my soft candy ass can only tolerate a select few
- Handlebar, I'm quite peculiar about my handlebar dimensions which narrows the selection to a handful of manufacturers
- Groupset, I only like the look and feel of one particular manufacturer's product, so it would just feel wrong most of the time
- Color, don't get me started on kit and frame color

A braking system would be the least of my worries. As long as it is supplied, I'm good.
TobinHatesYou wrote:I mean Sagan could choose to throw a tantrum and not ride the Venge, but that wouldn't do him any good. So yeah, he has to adapt because I don't think Specialized is going to make him a rim-brake "new Venge." If Sagan is on a disc Tarmac for non-flat stages this year, that will be a pretty good indication of who bows to whom.
In my opinion the tide has turned. The pro peloton's disc brake conversion was supposed to happen during 2018, and right now it looks like for 2019 they are still on the fence. That sucks for most manufacturers, as they have to essentially keep developing two models instead of one in road cycling sub-categories, as the primary marketing tool (pro peloton) is still not delivering the correct message. Releasing disc brake models gave a boost for the business, but development cost for a wider array of models will be a pain for most.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I think you’re projecting wishful thinking. The tide clearly has turned for the teams that are making disc brakes compulsory. Two years ago, pros were still saying things like they don’t want to get chopped up by red hot disc rotors and no teams would have dared make that move. Clearly the riders are more indifferent now than before, and a decent number are pro-disc.

The professional riders also don’t have any control over that’s being sold in shops...consumer sentiment and brand steering do. The only real governance from the pro ranks is the UCI rulebook dictating tube shapes, geometry, double triangles, etc.

TL;DR Last year only Trek was exclusively disc (except TTs). This year it seems four, possibly five teams are running disc-only already, with EF-Drapac likely joining them soon.

Jugi
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by Jugi

Well, I don't really mind what the pros ride, so I don't have any wishes for them. From a hobbyist's and a consumer's point of view, I find the current status quo very ample in a way, as there is plenty of products to choose for essentially the same usage.

However, the pro peloton and it's traditional approach to a bicycle is rather cumbersome. Although the bicycles used in pro racing do not have a critical effect in the results, they should still be the bunch using the fastest equipment available. If that isn't true, the role of pro cycling can be questioned. Or, If we can make the assumption that a brake system's type doesn't have a clear effect in performance inside WT racing, maybe we shouldn't make it out to be a big issue?

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C36
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by C36

Leaving the “quest to defend discs” aside and back to the topic, my insight are that Trek didn’t left the choice to their teams. We may see something different during key stages (quite some riders were against), but the default has been imposed, including for the female team who are clearly not in position to challenge the main sponsor.
Two cases where the team went against discs pushed by the bike sponsor:
- Direct energy, is leaving discs regularly used last year to use rim brakes under Terpstra push.
- Movistar where the 3 leaders made very negative comments on discs to the technical team. Hear that it push an extra pressure on Katusha to use discs.
Those 2 join the well known sky case where they evaluate that discs were not an option for them.



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