Some manufacturers forcing pros onto disk brakes for the 2019 season

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kgt
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by kgt

The opinion that a paid worker, who happens to be a pro cyclist, has no right to speak and defend himself regarding his equipment or anything else related to his work is totally unacceptable. It is not a coincidence that the teams that force their riders to use specific equipment are the big US ones.

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spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

kgt wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:55 pm
The opinion that a paid worker, who happens to be a pro cyclist, has no right to speak and defend himself regarding his equipment or anything else related to his work is totally unacceptable. It is not a coincidence that the teams that force their riders to use specific equipment are the big US ones.

:roll:

Now it's merica's fault.
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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

kgt wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:55 pm
The opinion that a paid worker, who happens to be a pro cyclist, has no right to speak and defend himself regarding his equipment or anything else related to his work is totally unacceptable. It is not a coincidence that the teams that force their riders to use specific equipment are the big US ones.
I agree it's disturbing on so many levels. the "necessity" to buy a completely different bike being forced upon those who just want to swap brakes (!) is a genius marketing plot - an evil one, because it's gonna make many people literally lose a lot of money, but really brilliant. and besides it cements a very dangerous concept that each and every novelty proposed by manufacturer is a 'must have' and the there's no way around it - either via written law (like what's happening to diesel cars across western europe) or withdrawing other options from the menu (like with phones - getting a new one means you can only get a smartphone, which many customers simply don't need or want, but still have to pay premium for it's features). of course all those "innovations" are making our lifes better, easier, etc, but also a lot more complicated, expensive, and - yup - less free. why? because we gradually stop being our own masters when it comes to consumption. hell, most of us have given up that freedom long time ago. "oh, you're making a fuss out of it, it's just brakes" one will say - sure "it's just <insert a name>" is happening on a daily basis in many industries - take cars, phones, clothes, food... that's what has lead us to overconsumption, and that's what's destroying our planet - this time literally.

so yeah - everytime someone tries to make me swap a whole thing just to make a small tiny 'upgrade', I say go to hell. and given the unavoidable global temperature rise - it's literal too.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I was going to post but Tom hates you on the first page posted exactly my thoughts.

Ryanh. Nemesis tubular rims. It sad that Ambrosio is now saying to importers that they can only buy in quantuies they will never sell in. Two importers in the u.k have stopped buying nemesis rims. Not sure who now buys them now.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

The tide has turned. I am building slot more disc brake wheels enough to fork out for my own hub instead of buying this hub of that one and be at the mercy of distributors stock.

In 1984 look introduced clipless pedals to the peleton. I would need if the same "debate" happened then. In 1989 Shimano and Campagnolo introduced intergration shifting and brake units. I was too young to know the howls of protest.

If you like rim brakes then you can still buy rim brakes bikes. There will always be frame builders to make them I am sure there will always be a good time brake offeringn Shimano still make ultergra brake levers which are the Bl-6403 remained, 30 years after they went obsolete.

mattr
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by mattr

bm0p700f wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:32 pm
In 1984 look introduced clipless pedals to the peleton. I would need if the same "debate" happened then.
Yes, because the first generation of clipless pedals and compatible shoes were really no better compared to decent clip, strap and cleat offerings. Some combinations were worse.
bm0p700f wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:32 pm
In 1989 Shimano and Campagnolo introduced intergration shifting and brake units. I was too young to know the howls of protest.
Mostly well justified howls, until the kinks were ironed out. More than one race lost/abandoned due to gears all over the place, with no friction option as a back up.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I have a set of look pp76 pedals introduced in 1985. They work fine. I also have the Dura ace st-7400 and these also work fine I also have toe straps and down tube shifters on some bikes. Look pp76 are preferable to toe straps and the st.-7400 are just like modern Sti's in operation. In fact I am not sure Shimano kit has actually advanced in function. Its just got lighter and 3 more cogs have been added. That's very good and easier to use that down tube shifters by the way.

mattr
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by mattr

So, you're using a nice bendy pair of early plastic soles with all the stiffness of leather? And you don't need float? Well, thats the kinks ironed out then.
And you've tweaked a hanger half way through a race or knocked a wheel over, then tried to carry on? Or don't you race with your 7400s?

It's not that the concepts were bad, just some of the issues needed a while to sort out.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I'm so crap at racing the age of the groupset makes no difference to my result.

Fortunately all the 80's cycling shoes have fallen apart by now.

halcyongolf
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by halcyongolf

mattr wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:45 pm
bm0p700f wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:32 pm
In 1984 look introduced clipless pedals to the peleton. I would need if the same "debate" happened then.
Yes, because the first generation of clipless pedals and compatible shoes were really no better compared to decent clip, strap and cleat offerings. Some combinations were worse.
bm0p700f wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:32 pm
In 1989 Shimano and Campagnolo introduced intergration shifting and brake units. I was too young to know the howls of protest.
Mostly well justified howls, until the kinks were ironed out. More than one race lost/abandoned due to gears all over the place, with no friction option as a back up.

There is always a transition period when it comes to new technology. Disc brakes may not be 100% ironed out right now, but they will get better, lighter, cheaper, more ergonomic, and eventually people will wonder why we would have ever used rim brakes. Your examples of clipless pedals and integrated shifters are prime examples of how new technology becomes the default...if it really is better. I'm not a rim brake hater. I live in a flat area now and just bought myself a top of the line rim brake bike. However, I doubt my next major bike purchase in 5 years will be a rim brake model. I'm OK with that so long as it is better. If you could have Ultegra-level hydro with a less than 100 gram weight penalty over rim, same ergos in hydro and rim whether it be Di2 or mechanical, and high travel brake calipers that eliminate rub, why wouldn't you take it? Now this may never happen, but who knows...

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

bm0p700f wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:32 pm
The tide has turned. I am building slot more disc brake wheels enough to fork out for my own hub instead of buying this hub of that one and be at the mercy of distributors stock.

In 1984 look introduced clipless pedals to the peleton. I would need if the same "debate" happened then. In 1989 Shimano and Campagnolo introduced intergration shifting and brake units. I was too young to know the howls of protest.

If you like rim brakes then you can still buy rim brakes bikes. There will always be frame builders to make them I am sure there will always be a good time brake offeringn Shimano still make ultergra brake levers which are the Bl-6403 remained, 30 years after they went obsolete.
Completely missing the point.
I believe society has to be 'tweaked' to make it work better for everyone. Huge resources taken out of the hands of billionaires and shared around in the form of taxes to make schools and hospitals free and high quality for the the ordinary person. I believe governments should protect the environment and subsidize renewable power and look after national parks.

But big business, hmm they like free market capitalism don't they, freedom unfettered from outside control to make money is just 'natural'. 'The tall trees will grow higher' and 'the consumer will decide'.

But wait. We've got this new technology that most people don't want. Let's force it on the market and use coercion, we've got all sorts of new boost 148mm axles and lighter more specific disk brake systems waiting in the wings, this is a business, we'll convince the public this new stuff is better, force the pros and teams onto it, then they'll want it, the next ten years they'll all be spending over $10,000 every year if they want a bike that looks like their heroes.

Even though the pros don't want it because it's heavier and any rider that's at the back of the peloton that gets a flat will get left behind as no neutral service wheel will fit even if it's disk brake as we haven't even bothered to standardize the rotor and hub spacing.

All I'm saying is if you're a capitalist corporation then just be what you are. Compete with your competitors, design new stuff and sell it market it. If it's good the consumer in every region of the world not just North America will want it. This coercion of teams and pro riders using contracts when they have no choice, and colluding with your competitors for the same money-grab goal is like being a capitalist and having your socialist cake and eat it too.

It's also totally different compared with the old technology examples you gave because it demands a totally different frameset. The old 'but technology moves on' argument is fine dealing with things that you can unbolt like pedals, but this is more like changing the standard on the pedal thread to force people to throw away their pedals if they buy a new chainset. New tech like tubeless is much less of a crime because you can easily just buy a tubeless wheelset and run it with tubes.

AJS914
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by AJS914

The idea that pro riders or teams are coerced to ride these products is just ridiculous. Peter Sagan and Bora could ride whatever they damn well please and they choose to partner with Specialized. I'm sure Sagan smiles broadly when he cashes his 6M euro check every year.


spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

I blame aluminum. 8)
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2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
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by Weenie


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AJS914
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by AJS914

Sagan had deeper wheels than Ewing and still lost. I don't think the issue was aero related.

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