2019 PRO thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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wingguy
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by wingguy

ichobi wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:46 am
Terpstra and Kittel are two prime example.
Well, Kittel was a superstar before QS, but he had his own issues before QS as well unfortunately.

Terpstra hasn’t really had a fair chance yet, but the Eurosport commentators are saying he’s had a very positive effect on the team as a whole, inspiring riders to try and reach his level.

I get your point overall, but not so sure about those two examples. Oh, and Cav had an outstanding season after leaving QS, but like Kittel he was a superstar anyway.

ichobi
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by ichobi

Fair points. Kittel always has this on and off year. Probably much more to do with his psyche more than his ability or team support. I remembered the year he won 5 tour stages he didn't really have a leadout traind to speak of and still did really really well. Cav is always Cav - hard to discount so that will always be an exception.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

both QS and SKY (and on the negative side: Movi) prove how much of a team sport cycling is these days.

interesting thing I've learned just days ago (couldn't share it as I was serving a ban that no one cares to explain, but that's a different story) is that CCC became major sponsor of Kwiato's cycling academy ("Copernicus" http://copernicus-cycling.pl/).

that CCC's owner would love to sign Kwiato and that two of them were in talks while the whole BMC thing was happening, is no big secret. what I've heard from few people is that Kwiato values SKY too much to leave it, even if it meant becoming THE leader, and having a title sponsors' resources at your disposal to strenghten and shape the team accordingly. of course, a relationship like that is - I believe - not only unprecedented (having your enterprise sponsored basically by a rival WT team) but gives away what will Kwiato do once he and SKY decides to part ways - we might as well go to a bookie and place a sure bet :thumbup:
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

bruno2000
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by bruno2000

AJS914 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:00 am
Does any rider get direct sponsorship from a bike manufactuer? I wonder if Canyon is kicking in on MVDP's salary. I guess he went with that small team so that he could have the flexibility to whatever he wants to do. Right now, his priority seems to be an Olympic medal.
This seems correct to me too.
It's said after the Amstel he will focus on some mountainbiking, come back to road racing in june to ride the dutch mationals to go back to mountabiking this summer, maybe focus a little on the road worlds to continue on the cross-bike.
What world-tour team, even being that good as he is, would allow him to do so?
For a bikemanufacturer this guy is a dream to hold on to...in 1 season only one guys is promoting ALL your types of bikes: roadbikes, cross bikes, TT bikes and mountaibikes. Other brand need to sponsor 2 - 3 teams to get the same visibilty.

ichobi
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by ichobi

I did an interview with Vivani once just before he moved to Quickstep. He said if it wasn't Quickstep, he would have not left team Sky. Even if he is not prioritised or given the lead role in major sprint race, he would still have stayed! He said the team is just too good. They prepare everything for the rider, even personal matter which he has not experienced in any other team ever. Fianlly he said that if he is to retire, he hopes to go back to Sky and retire there.

CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

ichobi wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:46 am
Any superstar leaving quickstep is likely to be a falling star. Individually they are not so much stronger than aces on the other team. They are successful because of qs teamwork most of the time. Still has not find any guy who leave quickstep and thrive. The exception may b Gaviria but he got a good tema work in UAE. Terpstra and Kittel are two prime example.
I couldn't agree more with you... DQS's best weapon isn't any single rider, it is the team of strong riders all capable of winning. This year, more than ever, I think we've seen that. This year, so many of their wins have come from the fact that they've had multiple riders in the winning move, or 1 rider in the winning move and 1 in the chase, spoiling the efforts. When you have mulitple weapons, the other teams have to respect all of them. As for the riders that have left the QS organization... I'd say that none of them have been as well off, including Cav. He has probably fared the best, but still not equivalent. I think there are a number of factors in his case, but at least some of it comes from the team structure. Terpstra and Kittel have fallen and if you look at Gaviria's result sheet for this year, it is considerably barren compared to the previous 3 years... granted we're only 3 months in and he's still got plenty of time and races... I'm assuming he'll be at the tour. Will UAE be sending a team that supports him, or one that supports Dan Martin in the GC, or one that is split?

mattr
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by mattr

wingguy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:38 am
That’s a little odd, a 4 or 5 year contract is massive for anyone in road racing, and there surely no way Corendon could have offered at the start what he’ll be worth at the end. Sounds like it’s designed to be bought out.
a) a smart agent and his dad could quite easily have put in significant win bonuses/salary hikes. Reigning CX WC might net him an extra 50k or more, Olympic Gold 100k, CX series win 25k, major classic 10k. I don't know, but i do know many rider's who have had that sort of thing in their contracts.
b) corendon are an airline, they can afford it
c) Canyon are almost certainly paying him.
d) Don't underestimate the amount you can negotiate year on year for personal sponsors. Some pros were making more than their salary from that. How much was pharmstrong making from Oakley/Giro/Nike/Trek?
e) Don't dismiss the ability to write your own race calendar. That's worth a lot, especially as he is so good at so many disciplines. Most others who have switched have generally had a period of time where they've had to learn the ropes. MVdP seems to have skipped this step completely.

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Dr.Dos
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by Dr.Dos

mattr wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:06 pm
wingguy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:38 am
That’s a little odd, a 4 or 5 year contract is massive for anyone in road racing, and there surely no way Corendon could have offered at the start what he’ll be worth at the end. Sounds like it’s designed to be bought out.
a) a smart agent and his dad could quite easily have put in significant win bonuses/salary hikes. Reigning CX WC might net him an extra 50k or more, Olympic Gold 100k, CX series win 25k, major classic 10k. I don't know, but i do know many rider's who have had that sort of thing in their contracts.
b) corendon are an airline, they can afford it
c) Canyon are almost certainly paying him.
d) Don't underestimate the amount you can negotiate year on year for personal sponsors. Some pros were making more than their salary from that. How much was pharmstrong making from Oakley/Giro/Nike/Trek?
e) Don't dismiss the ability to write your own race calendar. That's worth a lot, especially as he is so good at so many disciplines. Most others who have switched have generally had a period of time where they've had to learn the ropes. MVdP seems to have skipped this step completely.
See Corendon zoekt nieuw geld (Corendon is looking for new money).

Circus online casino/betting will have much bigger ressources.

maquisard
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by maquisard

Anyone who thinks airlines have money is laughing! Old saying, if you want to make one million euro in aviation, start with two million euro...

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:13 pm
As for the riders that have left the QS organization... I'd say that none of them have been as well off, including Cav. He has probably fared the best, but still not equivalent. I think there are a number of factors in his case, but at least some of it comes from the team structure.
Cavendish won 3 stages of the Tour in 3 years at QS. The first year after leaving he wore the Yellow Jersey and won 4 stages, despite leaving with a week to go to prep for the Olympics.

OK, he won a bunch of other stuff for QS too, but overall his Tour record is what history will judge him on. And to be fair QS was a pure classics team then, they had nothing like the leadout organisation they have now.

DeeHubbs
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by DeeHubbs

tymon_tm wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:00 am
interesting thing I've learned just days ago (couldn't share it as I was serving a ban that no one cares to explain, but that's a different story) is that CCC became major sponsor of Kwiato's cycling academy
Blood doping? EPO? Irregularity with your biological passport? Oh Oh.... Mechanical doping?

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Dan Gerous
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by Dan Gerous

I wouldn't be surprised if Canyon dropped Katusha if they need more more money to keep Mathieu, he's a much better investment.

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Kjetil
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by Kjetil

Wait! Is juicing up your keyboard not allowed any more?
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AJS914
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by AJS914

The other day I found this article from January about Gilbert:

https://www.velonews.com/2018/01/news/p ... ace_455552

He specifically wanted to be on QS, even at a low salary, so that he could try and win Roubaix and San Remo.

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Dan Gerous
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by Dan Gerous

AJS914 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:47 pm
The other day I found this article from January about Gilbert:

https://www.velonews.com/2018/01/news/p ... ace_455552

He specifically wanted to be on QS, even at a low salary, so that he could try and win Roubaix and San Remo.
Well, after his BMC years, he probably couldn't get a much better salary at any other team, but good on him for pitching it the way he did to go to the team he wanted.

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