2018 PRO thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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wingguy
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by wingguy

Adam Blythe said on Eurosport it's because Thomas has loads of prescription lenses stockpiled for them. Decent chance he was taking the piss though :P

by Weenie


Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

maquisard wrote:
bilwit wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 am
no way the jawbones are super cool and unique (dare I say "old school" ?) at this point. The new Flight/Field Jackets are horrible. Froome used to do the all-white-jawbones in 2012 too 8)
Ha, I ride all the time with a pair of fluo-yellow Jawbones, love them! Image
Explains a lot of things I guess.

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guyc
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by guyc

wingguy wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:08 am
Adam Blythe said on Eurosport it's because Thomas has loads of prescription lenses stockpiled for them. Decent chance he was taking the piss though :P
That is true! I'm the same with Flak Jackets for the last 10 years (although my age means I've finally had to get new lenses and went for Radar EV's this time)

KB
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by KB

wingguy wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:21 am
tymon_tm wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:38 am
the issue is - most successfull cyclists have a record of wins going back to their junior years. SKY's leaders don't (and although Wiggins was a superior athlete, track is not road racing). in a discipline where consistency allows improvement over the years, seeing a dude transforming from mediocre to unbelievable over a season or two is - what?
But most successful cyclists were focussed on the road in their junior days and early 20s. The nature of the BC program at the time meant that the best British talent was funnelled into the Olympic track program.
Exactly. There was no money for a road programme. The one English rider in the top 10 is Dan Martin (born and raised around Birmingham; Brit junior road champion), but he couldn't get financial backing when he needed it, so rode for Ireland (due to his Irish mother) instead. That's how one-sided it was for the trackies.

Tom14
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by Tom14

AJS914 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:52 am
Sky takes a guy like Froome with a high VO2 max, trains them and puts them on the get skinny program (with whatever drugs that might entail). It's all about power to weight ratio. They did the same thing with Wiggins but he wasn't a good team player.
And suddenly Froome could ride a good TT :?

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Miller
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by Miller

Wow, the Sky haters in this thread are really suffering. That's a shame.
Not.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

KB wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:44 am
wingguy wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:21 am

But most successful cyclists were focussed on the road in their junior days and early 20s. The nature of the BC program at the time meant that the best British talent was funnelled into the Olympic track program.
Exactly. There was no money for a road programme. The one English rider in the top 10 is Dan Martin (born and raised around Birmingham; Brit junior road champion), but he couldn't get financial backing when he needed it, so rode for Ireland (due to his Irish mother) instead. That's how one-sided it was for the trackies.
OK, wasn't aware about it. as I said, Wiggo's a phenomenal athlete, so his transition to road racing is less of a surprise (for instance - Roglic was a solid ski jumper too :mrgreen: ). it's still a bit quirky though, perhaps it's just me not knowing the science behind the process, but getting a track powerhorse to perform along best climbers in the world (again, guys who have been doing it their entire career) is somewhat mind twisting. he stll managed to be 4th at '09 Tour though, did some races earlier.. but Thomas? he might've been known on the track, but here we go again - where's team pursuit, where's climbing atop Huez? two different realities, although I once again acknowledge a world class athlete is possibly more open to shift regarding his abilities. perhaps SKY has the knowledge to shift athletes like that, never mind their age - but I just don't buy it. one is luck, two coincidence, three - a pattern. of course where this lead follows is up for guessing at the moment, and mine is as good as yours.

also: I haven't heard about anything even remotely similar in other disciplines, heck even considering alpine skiing, where one would say downhill and slalom are just riding down the slopes thus very similar - which they are not - guys and gals who shine in one end take seasons to master the opposite one.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

Miller wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:17 am
Wow, the Sky haters in this thread are really suffering. That's a shame.
Not.
the word "hate" is a two lane street - I could say branding everyone who doesn't see this miracle of a team for what they picture themselves a "hater" you put yourself in a "psychofan" or "cult follower" seat :mrgreen: instead we might just talk, criticize, debate and sometimes agree to disagree, puting emotions aside. unless you're emotionally involved, which makes you... yeah
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

wingguy
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by wingguy

tymon_tm wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:40 am
also: I haven't heard about anything even remotely similar in other disciplines, heck even considering alpine skiing, where one would say downhill and slalom are just riding down the slopes thus very similar - which they are not - guys and gals who shine in one end take seasons to master the opposite one.
Leaving aside that you're conflating skills wth fitness, I'll once again point out that Geraint Thomas hasn't raced track since 2012. That's six seasons of uninterrupted road riding (in addition to a 2009-11 spell) during which time he's shown a steady and constant improvement in ability and results. Rundfahrt, Algarve, Nice, Alps, Dauphine.... Tour?

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

not just skills, it takes a whole different set of abilities for downhill/SG and slalom/GS. it's basically like sprinter vs. climber.

re: Thomas - his individual progress isn't any extraordinary. it's when you put in context and observe the pattern, it gets a bit, well, eyebrow-raising. that's it, nothing more, nothing less.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

bikewithnoname
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by bikewithnoname

Quick fact.

Before TD won the Giro in ‘17 he had won exactly zero 1 week races or classics, and only placed in the top 10 of a 3week tour once (almost 4mins down).

Using the logic being applied to Thomas, there is no possible way TD has actually won the Giro, it’s just not possible that someone with this previous palmares and 3week form actually won the Giro, it’s impossible, IMPOSSIBLE

But hang on it actually happened, I saw it first hand in Milan. Eyebrows raised?

Sports a funny thing
"We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities." Oscar Wilde

Pegoretti Responsorium, Parlee Z5i, Donhou Commuter, 1946 MacLeans Featherweight L'Eroica!, 2x MTB 'dales

seaneT1
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by seaneT1

So most of you say that the pattern here is take trackies and turn them to GC riders in a forthnight by dopping or voodoo or magic or whatever....Sky has the biggest budget by far, already has/had great climbers and GC riders who were never trackies in their roster, why not make their life easier and do what they do with the trackies instead with these guys and save all the hussle and have better results while they're at it???? Do some of you people even realise how stupid you sound with all those conspiracy theories????

Rondje
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by Rondje

bikewithnoname wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:18 am
Quick fact.

Before TD won the Giro in ‘17 he had won exactly zero 1 week races or classics, and only placed in the top 10 of a 3week tour once (almost 4mins down).

Using the logic being applied to Thomas, there is no possible way TD has actually won the Giro, it’s just not possible that someone with this previous palmares and 3week form actually won the Giro, it’s impossible, IMPOSSIBLE

But hang on it actually happened, I saw it first hand in Milan. Eyebrows raised?

Sports a funny thing
Before 2017 Dumoulin nearly won the Vuelta until collapsing in the 2nd last stage in 2015. Then 2016 was a bad year where he abandoned the Giro where he has worn the pink for at least a week and crashed out the Tour after winning the Andorra stage. 2016 was also the year most of his focus was on the TT for the Olympics. He had top 10 in 1-week races before. The other difference is Dumoulin is still young. and has been building up to stage races and TT from day one. He doesn't come from another complete discipline. It's apples and oranges.

But that whole other discipline thing is not really a good argument I think. Sagan originally comes from XC. V Aert made a pretty impressive shift from CX towards the classics this year. And then there is VD Poel, possibly the biggest upcoming all-round talent currently riding a bike. Seamlessly transforming from the best in CX to currently the 2nd best in XC. And he got plenty of talents on the road with his Dutch national title and junior world champion title. What are we gonna say of him when he makes the shift from XC/CX to the road in 2020 and starts riding strong from the get-go?

I don't think Thomas his progression is that suspicious. He has been slowly making the move to become a GC man for a few years now. And we still don't know if he can keep it up for 3 weeks. Froome is another topic on its own, but I won't get into that.

bikewithnoname
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by bikewithnoname

I agree. Was just using some facts to debunk the assertion that some people have made that you have to have a palmares like Valverde/Contador to have a chance of winning a Grand Tour
"We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities." Oscar Wilde

Pegoretti Responsorium, Parlee Z5i, Donhou Commuter, 1946 MacLeans Featherweight L'Eroica!, 2x MTB 'dales

by Weenie


KB
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by KB

tymon_tm wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:03 am
not just skills, it takes a whole different set of abilities for downhill/SG and slalom/GS. it's basically like sprinter vs. climber.

re: Thomas - his individual progress isn't any extraordinary. it's when you put in context and observe the pattern, it gets a bit, well, eyebrow-raising. that's it, nothing more, nothing less.
Britain has always produced good pursuit riders who developed into roadies. Simpson, Hoban, Boardman, Wiggins et al. Thomas raced in his first TdF 11 years ago and finished second last. I think he was 21 at the time. Indurain's first tour I think he finished about 90th. Riders improve with age. Yes, Froome makes me scratch my head a bit, but not Thomas. And remember that pursuit riders are not track sprinters. The physiology is totally different. As a corollary there are runners who are world class 1500m runners and then develop into 10000m runners.

My comments are not rhetorical, just an explanation.

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