2018 PRO thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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Willier
Posts: 1549
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:37 pm

by Willier

Willier wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:15 pm
Caja Rural De Rosa bike is beauty
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"Smart may have the answers, but stupid have all the interesting questions."

bruno2000
Posts: 668
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:11 pm

by bruno2000

Nice to see the Italian brand Miche to finally step up to a big pro-team.
Their products deserve this.

by Weenie


Jenmoss
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Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:15 am

by Jenmoss

Multebear wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:53 pm
Rob81 wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:52 pm
Kudos to him. Which supplement screwed his AD test in his previous attempt?
"Martin Toft Madsen set a Danish Hour Record earlier last year, but it was voided after he failed the doping test, for what was deemed a contaminated supplement, which meant he didn't get any ban, but the result was still voided."
You know what, whenever someone caught with doping says, that the charges are pure BS, you don't believe them. But in this case, I actually believe him.

And the way I see it, he actually proved his innocence. He was taking some food supplement pills named L-carnitine, that he bought from a big danish supplement company with a very good reputation. The company stated on their webpage, that all their products were 100 % legal and didn't contain banned substances of any kind. By accident their L-carnitine products were contaminated with a DMBA, which is a banned substance. Fortunately he still had some pills left and he handed them over to the anti doping agency. They ran some tests on the pills and they found traces of DMBA in them. In other words he provided proof of the origin of the banned substance and he got a slap on the wrist, but they still cancelled his result on his 2017 hour attempt. He later got an apology from the supplement company, and they removed the information from their webpage describing how their products didn't contain banned substances.

Long time ago you would by some “ supplements “ and the company’s producing them would add steroids etc so you would get results and think this company have finally come up with a legit product that works, There have been tons of products that have been banned where illegal PED’s have turned up in them. Supplements have a history of this and pro athletes know full well the risk of taking a supplement. I
He’s as guilty as any other doped rider. Who knows this could have been a ploy to cover his a## and something else he may have been taking ,he knows exactly what he’s doing.

DMBA is a new version of methylhexanemine

Related
Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory AgencyMedicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency
UK Anti-Doping confirms six month ban for Enzo MaccarinelliUK Anti-Doping confirms six month ban for Enzo Maccarinelli
100% me athlete zone100% me athlete zone
The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has ruled that products containing methylhexaneamine need to be removed from the UK market amid concerns of potential risks to public safety.

Methylhexaneamine, which is often listed under a number of different names including DMAA and MHA, is most commonly used as a workout aid or weight-loss supplement and is banned in-competition under the World Anti-Doping Agency List of Prohibited substances and methods.

The MHRA has issued eight urgent notices instructing retailers to remove the product and any other DMAA containing products from sale.

David Carter, the Manager of the MHRA’s Medicines Borderline Section said: “People need to be aware when choosing their sports supplements. These products may claim to increase performance but contain powerful ingredients which can have serious side-effects.

“We recommend that people only use approved products and speak to a qualified medical practitioner if they have any concerns about any supplements they may be taking.”

Graham Arthur, Director of Legal at UK Anti-Doping said: “This is a significant step forward for all competitive athletes as methylhexaneamine is a banned substance ‘in-competition’ that frequently appears in over the counter and internet bought products but not clearly on the label.

“Athletes who use sports supplements need to choose reputable manufacturers who can justify their claims with scientific evidence, and have their products screened to minimise the risk of testing positive for a substance on the World Anti-Doping Agency’s Prohibited List.

“UK Anti-Doping continues to work closely with the MHRA to protect the health of athletes and to prevent doping in sport."

Multebear
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by Multebear

MRM wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:47 am

So what stops him from having wilfully contaminated pills to hand in as a built in excuse and get out of jail free card?

AFAIK WADA has to also go out with their investigative team and purchase those pills independently and find the same substance contamination to result in an acquittal. FYI
I did some more digging, and it turns out, that he gave the anti doping agency an unused and unopened container of pills, which they based their testing from.

But the thing is, whatever supplement he took at the time and whatever effect it had on his performance, he’s not taking any kinds of supplements now, and he still improved his hour by roughly 400 m compared to the one that got voided.

Besides that, that track he rode last Night is known to be a slower track compared to other tracks. There is a track in Odense, Denmark which is said to be around 500 meters faster than this one. And if he’s considering going all in, the track in Mexico is considered the fastest in the World. So there are still options to improve his performance.
Last edited by Multebear on Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

CarlosFerreiro
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Location: Shetland, Scotland

by CarlosFerreiro

ave wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:52 pm
I saw that Sagan program before too.

Just reread parts of it. Take this one:
Peter will do four to six repetitions of 10 minutes at 85 per cent of his maximum aerobic power — not his FTP but rather his aerobic threshold (FTP indicates the anaerobic one). This aerobic power equates to around 60 to 70 per cent of his FTP.
If I calculate the actual Watts with my own FTP, it means doing 10 minute long intervals of next to zero load. (I do my recovery at this level between my SST intervals.)
I know it's his november program, so I don't expect to see all out efforts, but I'd hardly call these interals.

(Or simply this 60-70% of FTP is bullshit)
It seems likely to me that they have the percentages the wrong way round at the end.
They may be using different terms, but taking it all at at face value I think it should say that "Peter will do four to six repetitions of 10 minutes at 85 per cent of his maximum aerobic power (MAP). FTP equates to around 60 to 70 per cent of MAP."
So it's 10 minute intervals at about 125% FTP - more like you might expect?

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Willier
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by Willier

"Smart may have the answers, but stupid have all the interesting questions."

MRM
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by MRM

CarlosFerreiro wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:33 pm
ave wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:52 pm
I saw that Sagan program before too.

Just reread parts of it. Take this one:
Peter will do four to six repetitions of 10 minutes at 85 per cent of his maximum aerobic power — not his FTP but rather his aerobic threshold (FTP indicates the anaerobic one). This aerobic power equates to around 60 to 70 per cent of his FTP.
If I calculate the actual Watts with my own FTP, it means doing 10 minute long intervals of next to zero load. (I do my recovery at this level between my SST intervals.)
I know it's his november program, so I don't expect to see all out efforts, but I'd hardly call these interals.

(Or simply this 60-70% of FTP is bullshit)
It seems likely to me that they have the percentages the wrong way round at the end.
They may be using different terms, but taking it all at at face value I think it should say that "Peter will do four to six repetitions of 10 minutes at 85 per cent of his maximum aerobic power (MAP). FTP equates to around 60 to 70 per cent of MAP."
So it's 10 minute intervals at about 125% FTP - more like you might expect?
Makes sense!
Going too far, dude. Don't wish ill on others because they used too much of an inhaler or any other reason. Taking the moral high ground without having any yourself seems rather hypocritical, don't you think?

MRM
Posts: 348
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by MRM

nathanong87 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:55 am
totally unrelated to cycling but related.... rogan had novitzky on his podcast recently and this exact question was raised for jon jones. I believe (and to paraphrase) he went onto say that if indeed there is a tainted supplement the story and amount and traces in his (jones) system would have to match the supplement and their procurement/tests of it.

22:05 to about 24:40
https://youtu.be/-xxfT301Ii8?t=22m5s
Yeah I heard that one as well. Love JRE!

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Rob81
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Location: Northern Italy close to Gavia and Mortirolo
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by Rob81

Multebear wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:53 pm
By accident their L-carnitine products were contaminated with a DMBA
thanks

nemeseri
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm

by nemeseri

I'm sure most of you read cyclingtips.com, but this piece was super interesting about going from u23 talent to pro. And also what it takes to ride for a pro team as a rookie. Rare, but the comments are very awesome too:
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/01/former- ... t-cycling/

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Tough job. It sounds like he never really recovered from his injuries before he got thrown into it full speed ahead.

maquisard
Posts: 1906
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Location: France

by maquisard

Some staggering stuff in this article about British Cycling/Sky medical practices and general disorganisation. What is most surprising is how completely polar opposite it is to the well organised slick operation that Brailsford often lauds!

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/01/uk-anti ... stigation/

UKAD lays out the errors and omissions made by British Cycling.

1. “We found no formal processes or procedures in place to record the purchase, use, or disposal of pharmaceutical products and medical supplies, ie a medical stock-taking system (except for invoices kept by the finance department).

2. “There was no process to record what products or supplies were stored by British Cycling at the velodrome or elsewhere, and what was checked in and out of the medical room on site.”

3. “There were no records of pharmaceutical/medical supply packages sent by British Cycling to teams competing at events at home or abroad.

4. The medical room at the Manchester Velodrome was chaotic and disorganised. There was no apparent filing system, and papers were just piled up in cupboards and filing cabinets.

5. Electronic medical records were not kept by British Cycling nor was there any back-up system.

6. From some of the Doping Control Forms inspected there is no recording of medication for substances for which UKAD became aware were being administered to riders, albeit legitimately (i.e not prohibited).

7. We found little, if any, evidence of supervision or executive oversight of the team doctors (Dr Freeman and Dr Steve Peters) by British Cycling

8. There are considerable periods of time to which it is impossible to ascertain if the staff (including medical staff) were operating as members of British Cycling or Team Sky, with clear instances of British Cycling staff being used for Team Sky purposes (e.g. Simon Cope being used to transport the package for Team Sky). In fact, there were some staff who, at a point in time, were simultaneously employed by both British Cycling and Team Sky.

9. There were examples where British Cycling pharmaceutical and medical supplies were paid for by Team Sky and vice versa.

10. Despite being aware of the allegations in relation to the 2011 ‘package,’ British Cycling was slow to inform UKAD of these. In fact, contact on this matter was made at UKAD’s instigation. Contact by British Cycling with some members of staff at British Cycling, prior to informing UKAD, could have potentially compromised our investigation with the possible loss of data evidence.

bilwit
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by bilwit

maquisard wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:38 am
Some staggering stuff in this article about British Cycling/Sky medical practices and general disorganisation. What is most surprising is how completely polar opposite it is to the well organised slick operation that Brailsford often lauds!

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/01/uk-anti ... stigation/
imho sounds more like incompetence than mass conspiracy coverup

Wookski
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

bilwit wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:15 am
maquisard wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:38 am
Some staggering stuff in this article about British Cycling/Sky medical practices and general disorganisation. What is most surprising is how completely polar opposite it is to the well organised slick operation that Brailsford often lauds!

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/01/uk-anti ... stigation/
imho sounds more like incompetence than mass conspiracy coverup
A sophisticated doping regime could thrive under a system of limited control, process, diligence and discipline. Sounds like perfect conditions!

by Weenie


maquisard
Posts: 1906
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Location: France

by maquisard

I think it is impossible to draw conclusions either way. But again, it is staggering that an organisation which prides itself on attention to detail and leaving no stone unturned in pursuit of performance would conduct itself like that.

Medical support, and I don't mean the doping kind, is incredibly important in elite sport. How it could be run like this is beyond belief, the lack of record keeping in particular. My wife is a medic and she would dismiss a student or foundation year medic for behaving in such a manner, and these were supposed to be medical professionals operating at a consultant level.

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