2018 PRO thread

[tymon_tm]

Still I can't see why Yates brothers did not ride the Foil. Light enough, comfortable enough, and faster (aero). And the new systemsix? Will the riders ignore it like they ignored the venge vias? What about Valverde - Quintana and the Aeroad?
I am always very sceptical against any claims related to aero gains but even I cannot understand how not even one team can persuade its top riders to ride an aero frame. Even just for marketing reasons...

While none of the current GC prospects ride an all-out aero bike, IIRC Joaquim Rodriguez always rode the Aeroad. I think his lieutenant Dani Moreno did as well in his Katusha days.

afaik Kasia Niewiadoma both trains and races on an Aeroad

[Kjetil]

Kristoff used the Aeroad for everything including the Roubaix rough while at Katusha.

[Antoine]

Mas is pretty scary :

[kgt]

Kristoff used the Aeroad for everything including the Roubaix rough while at Katusha.

I know there are some riders on aero frames but according to the manufacturers every rider should ride an aero frame (because of the "free" watts, etc.) except maybe for 1-2 tough mountain stages. That's not the case at all though. The teams cannot make their riders to ride these frames. Where is the new systemsix? The new Venge? The new timemachine?
It seems to me like there are two categories nowadays: Non aero-non disc frames for (most of) the pros and aero-disc frames for the rest of us. It's interesting because the pros end up having "inferior" technology bikes.
The time when kids lusted after the bikes of the pros may soon seem like a thing of the past.

[maquisard]

Skeleton with skin stretched over it

[TiCass]

Kristoff used the Aeroad for everything including the Roubaix rough while at Katusha.

I know there are some riders on aero frames but according to the manufacturers every rider should ride an aero frame (because of the "free" watts, etc.) except maybe for 1-2 tough mountain stages. That's not the case at all though. The teams cannot make their riders to ride these frames. Where is the new systemsix? The new Venge? The new timemachine?
It seems to me like there are two categories nowadays: Non aero-non disc frames for (most of) the pros and aero-disc frames for the rest of us. It's interesting because the pros end up having "inferior" technology bikes.
The time when kids lusted after the bikes of the pros may soon seem like a thing of the past.

Riders should ride their according to their "winning move", strength or when they are under pressure of being drop.
It doesn't matter if you save 5 watts riding in the middle of the pack at 200 watts, it won't change anything. If you're a climber, you pick whats best in a climb. If you're a breakaway guy, you pick what is best in a breakaway. If you're a GC guy, well you're not a sprinter and you're not a breakaway guy. You'll ride a sub 7 kg bike.

That's why I don't see the GC guy riding disc brake or aero bike next year... unless they can build it at 7 kg with their sponsors gears.

[seaneT1]

Can we accept the simple truth? Being a pro bike rider does NOT mean that you know everything about bikes and that your equipment and your choices in equipment are the best...I know many weekend warriors with far superior equipment than almost every pro right now....

[tymon_tm]

there's wisdom of riders, and there's wisdom of manufacturers. not the first time they don't go along too well.

re: sprinters riding on discs - from what I gather, it's the stiffer front axle that makes the whole difference...

Can we accept the simple truth? Being a pro bike rider does NOT mean that you know everything about bikes and that your equipment and your choices in equipment are the best...I know many weekend warriors with far superior equipment than almost every pro right now....

superior in what way?

[kgt]

Can we accept the simple truth? Being a pro bike rider does NOT mean that you know everything about bikes and that your equipment and your choices in equipment are the best...I know many weekend warriors with far superior equipment than almost every pro right now....

This argumentt about the 'retarded' pro comes up often but... sorry, I cannot accept it.
First of all we are not talking about an x rider but about professional cycling teams with coaches, managers, engineers, mechanics, manufacturers, sponsors. They know more about bikes and their performance than most of us do. On top of that I cannot get how an average rider knows more or is more technology-sensitive than a pro who rides for a living and his performance is the only thing he cares about.
So, thinking that a pro team does not 'understand' modern cycling technology but most cycling forum members do is ridiculous to say the least.

[LeDuke]

...And yet, just a few years ago, Hyperons, 202s and the like were quite common.

Then, at some point, people were able to convince the supposedly all-knowing pros that deeper, heavier rims were in fact faster, even going up hill. We regularly see mid-depth rims on climbing stages on GC riders’ bikes.




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[AJS914]

I know there are some riders on aero frames but according to the manufacturers every rider should ride an aero frame (because of the "free" watts, etc.) except maybe for 1-2 tough mountain stages. That's not the case at all though. The teams cannot make their riders to ride these frames. Where is the new systemsix? The new Venge? The new timemachine?

The new Venge is everywhere. Between Sagan, Viviani, Gaviria, and the other QS guys I'd guess that the Venge is responsible for a ridiculous number of wins this year. It's probably the winningest bike in 2018.

You make it sound like there is this internal struggle at teams between riders, teams and manufactuers. Is this just your speculation? I've never seen this reported.

These days a lot of frames have aero features. The F10 is an aero bike minus integrated cables. The Emonda has kamtail tubes and aero features. The Tarmac has inherited various Venge features like dropped chainstays and tests very close to the Venge with an aero road bar installed. Los of Colnago sponsered riders are riding the V1R/V2R which has aero features or the Concept rather than the C60/C64.

I can see how a protected GC rider might not feel the need for a full aero bike. He basically sits on a wheel until the last few km.

[wingguy]

The teams cannot make their riders to ride these frames. Where is the new systemsix? The new Venge? The new timemachine?
It seems to me like there are two categories nowadays: Non aero-non disc frames for (most of) the pros and aero-disc frames for the rest of us. It's interesting because the pros end up having "inferior" technology bikes.

It’s an odd dynamic. On one hand, aero bikes are a lot nicer to ride now. They can be just as stiff, almost as comfortable and handle as well or even better than climbing bikes. But... most of them are now heavier than ever.

It’s like most or all the reasons riders may not have liked previous gen aero bikes are gone, and one big new reason for GC riders not to like them has been introduced.

[kgt]

The new Venge is everywhere. Between Sagan, Viviani, Gaviria, and the other QS guys I'd guess that the Venge is responsible for a ridiculous number of wins this year. It's probably the winningest bike in 2018.

You make it sound like there is this internal struggle at teams between riders, teams and manufactuers. Is this just your speculation? I've never seen this reported.

These days a lot of frames have aero features. The F10 is an aero bike minus integrated cables. The Emonda has kamtail tubes and aero features. The Tarmac has inherited various Venge features like dropped chainstays and tests very close to the Venge with an aero road bar installed. Los of Colnago sponsered riders are riding the V1R/V2R which has aero features or the Concept rather than the C60/C64.

I can see how a protected GC rider might not feel the need for a full aero bike. He basically sits on a wheel until the last few km.

Sprinters are not GQ contenders and an "aero features" frame is not the same as aero. However a protected rider can still have a considerable benefit (according to the manufacturers) from an aero frame which is also supposed to be faster in every terrain with less than 8% inclination.

Maybe it is just what winguy says. Aero frame + discs is too heavy for the GQ contenders and that's a real problem. And sprinters are the only riders who can promote aero + discs because in a sprint lightweight or not does not really matter.

[bilwit]

The new Venge is everywhere. Between Sagan, Viviani, Gaviria, and the other QS guys I'd guess that the Venge is responsible for a ridiculous number of wins this year. It's probably the winningest bike in 2018.

You make it sound like there is this internal struggle at teams between riders, teams and manufactuers. Is this just your speculation? I've never seen this reported.

These days a lot of frames have aero features. The F10 is an aero bike minus integrated cables. The Emonda has kamtail tubes and aero features. The Tarmac has inherited various Venge features like dropped chainstays and tests very close to the Venge with an aero road bar installed. Los of Colnago sponsered riders are riding the V1R/V2R which has aero features or the Concept rather than the C60/C64.

I can see how a protected GC rider might not feel the need for a full aero bike. He basically sits on a wheel until the last few km.

Sprinters are not GQ contenders and an "aero features" frame is not the same as aero. However a protected rider can still have a considerable benefit (according to the manufacturers) from an aero frame which is also supposed to be faster in every terrain with less than 8% inclination.

Maybe it is just what winguy says. Aero frame + discs is too heavy for the GQ contenders and that's a real problem. And sprinters are the only riders who can promote aero + discs because in a sprint lightweight or not does not really matter.

are you sure?



Cav, Kittel, etc are pretty photogenic. Meanwhile, Chris Froome would be the last person to contend for anything on GQ..

[themidge]

I'm thinking we (as the fans) underestimate the importance of an mechanically simple bike to the professional rider. Not all of them are technically very knowledgeable, and I'd always trust my life and income on a tool I can understand.

This x10, you cannot get around the fact that discs* are harder to fix when they go wrong. If I were a pro, I'd want to understand how everything works on my bike and know how to try to fix it if the team car is MIA.

*and to a certain extent Di2, Contador and Cancellara both kept their mechanical groupsets almost to the last, and I saw an interview on GCN a while back where a UHC rider said he preferred mechanical because he could 'kind if fake it' when a shift didn't happen, which you can't with Di2.