2018 PRO thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

wingguy wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:40 pm
tymon_tm wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 12:15 pm
f the fab 5 decided to work instead of pulling petty attacks on one another, the outcome could've been a bit different
True... but why would they? Too many competing elements.

Pozzovivo and Pinot have a better chance of putting time into Dumoulin than Yates in the final weekend, so they should be attacking him instead of working with him. Realistically they’re prob racing each other for third though, so either attacking Dumoulin too hard would leave them open to a counterfrom the other. Still more reason to put in a bit of a dig than work full gas in a chase.

Then you’ve got Lopez and Carapaz in their own private battle for a jersey that has nothing really to do with what the other three are riding for except to break up the rhythm whenever they accidentally find themselves on the front or throw down an attack.

Dumoulin was really the only guy with an easy decision - ignore the others and do whatever you can to limit the gap to Yates. If that meant the others mugged him on the final climb to the line, it shouldn’t really matter because he’ll put them away in the TT.
Well said.. spot on analysis of the motives of each participant. I also think that there's a certain aspect of Dumoulin's comments that he knows the other guys won't help and shouldn't, but simply putting it out there in the media, puts pressure on them in the future. It's almost like he's calling them out, hoping that when and if it happens again, they second guess their personal motives a little, and think, "Maybe I should pull? Is that better for me?"
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CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

Regarding Yates... I don't think this is a one-off performance. I think that his palamres show a steady build of form and race tactics, getting better and better results in bigger and bigger races over the years, which is exactly how the Michelton-Scott guys have been grooming him over the past few seasons, gradually gving both Yates brothers more and more responisibility.

2015 - 5th in Tour of the Basque and the Dauphine, 6th in the Romandie
2016 - 6th in the Vuelta
2017 - 2nd in Romandie, 9th in Paris-Nice
2018 - 2nd in Paris - Nice, 4th in Catalunya

It's also important to note that this race ain't over yet.. he hasn't got in won and there's still some good racing left.
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by Weenie


wingguy
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by wingguy

CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:41 pm
2015 - 5th in Tour of the Basque and the Dauphine, 6th in the Romandie
2016 - 6th in the Vuelta
2017 - 2nd in Romandie, 9th in Paris-Nice
2018 - 2nd in Paris - Nice, 4th in Catalunya
Both him and his brother have shown good one-day potential as well. Simon won the U23 World champs, and recently the GP Miguel Indurain among other good placings, and Adam has won a couple of GP Industria & Artigiana and a San Sebastian. Although they're both strongly focussing on GC right now their attributes and potential are quite Valverde-ish, IMO - and the first two weeks have had a fair few stages that suit that were perfectly suited to that kind of rider.

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themidge
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by themidge

I think I saw a Scott Addict disc sitting on top of a team car in Michelton Scott's BSP video for yesterday's stage (15), has anyone seen any of their riders using one?

pastronef
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by pastronef

themidge wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:02 pm
I think I saw a Scott Addict disc sitting on top of a team car in Michelton Scott's BSP video for yesterday's stage (15), has anyone seen any of their riders using one?
Kreuziger won the Otztaler last year with that bike, and trains with it.

CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

Simon Yates' press conference from today... interesting that he says he's at the best weight he's ever been.

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

wingguy wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:40 pm
tymon_tm wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 12:15 pm
f the fab 5 decided to work instead of pulling petty attacks on one another, the outcome could've been a bit different
True... but why would they? Too many competing elements.
I don't disagree with your take and it was clearly the one the riders had on the road. My only thought (and I guess is where Tom is coming from) is why not limit the losses to Yates collectively, banking that he has to have a bad day sooner or later. So why let him get out of sight. A very self serving tactic given how well TD TTs. Only if Yates does crack at some point this week, he's still going to be too far gone now for either Pinot or Pozzovivo to move back past him.

wingguy
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by wingguy

Tinea Pedis wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 11:26 pm
I don't disagree with your take and it was clearly the one the riders had on the road. My only thought (and I guess is where Tom is coming from) is why not limit the losses to Yates collectively, banking that he has to have a bad day sooner or later. So why let him get out of sight. A very self serving tactic given how well TD TTs.
Yeah, exactly. He seems to want to be treated as an equal on the road, but it's not going to happen and it's a little bit petulant of him to call them out on the road and call it silly games. There are relatively few situations in which the best interests of a purer climber will be served by working well with him instead of trying to drop him. As Sagan in the Classics, so Tom in the Tours, and he needs to understand that and find a way to work with it as best he can, 'cos it ain't gonna change.

Don't want to sound too harsh - on balance his mentality seems to be every impressive and usually his ability to ride his exact limit and minimise losses after seemingly being heavily dropped is brilliant. Quite possibly the best in the world at it on most days. This is just one little chink in his armour.

thePrince
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by thePrince

I think you have to look at Yates's performance in the bigger picture. It takes a lot of things to lineup up perfectly to win ONE grand tour. Personal fitness peak, nutrition/weight peak, course (TT vs climbing miles), competition, weather, luck, etc etc etc. We've all had those no-chain days, and as others have mentioned he's been patientily building that 3-week fitness. So for two-weeks, ok. Let's review that bigger picture, in particular obnoxious grand tour repeats.

Anquetil: 5 Tours, 4 in a row; Vuelta/Tour double '63, Grio '60. Doper.
Merckx: 5 Tours, 4 in a row; Giro/Tour double '70, '72, '74; Vuelta/Giro double '73; Giro '68. Doper.
Hinault: 5 Tours, Veulta/Tour double '78; Giro/Tour double '82, '85. Giro '80; Vuelta '83. Doper (Refused doping control '82)
Indurain: 5 tours in a row, Giro/Tour double '92, '92. Multiple doctors (Ferrari, Luis García del Moral) = Doper.
Lance, Landis, Contador: 9 Tours in a row, 11 out of 12. Dopers.
Wiggins, Froome: 5 Tours, 5 out of 6. Dopers.

So you have wait and see. Yates winning 1 or 2 GTs in his peak. Believable? (although he is already a convicted doper for "non-intentional doping" i.e. TUE for asthma aka dope to lose KGs and increase w/kg.)
I never agree with Wookski, but when you review the history of grand tours, it's really better to assume everyone is clean and enjoy the show :wink: :beerchug:


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JKolmo
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by JKolmo

bilwit wrote:
did you see him after the stage? He was crying and said he didn't know why, that alone proves he's at least not on testosterone :lol:
LOL!! Image

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TonyM
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by TonyM

This Monday was boring...I watched the interviews of Froome, Yates, Dumoulin, etc....but just can‘t wait to see Tuesday and the TT !!

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micky
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by micky

I don't envy the riders today as it's raining in almost whole north of Italy and in the middle of the Dolomites, it won't stop whole day.
Not sure if there's any tricky downhill in the TT route.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

with a rainy TT all bets are off. anything can happen, and I kinda hope "it" will, so the Giro gets decided during the climbing stages, not today's ITT
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

peted76
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by peted76

In some motorsport it's generally accepted that breaking the rules will happen. Only the top ten finishing positions drivers/cars get 'tested'. Breaking rules results in fines and disqualifications from that race only. You could take any car beyond that top 10 you will find multiple rules breaks, a postion 11 finish is far better for the sponsors than a position 20 finish mentality. Within the top ten you'll find the rules being pushed to the absolute limit and broken by accident often due to being so far on the limit. (think finishing weights, aerodynamics, height off the ground etc.. ).
In cycling we hold some weird belief that those at the very top of the sport are either heroes and villans. Personally if anyone told me they rode at the top level and were winning without any form of an ethically questionable enhancement, I'd call bullshit.
I think to some degree, it's us the fans, who've been fed a skewed perspective on 'cheats and cheating' by the UCI and the Media like since, for ever..

Anyway, I'm cheering for Yates, but hell, I'll cheer for anyone who lights up a race and makes it entertaining!

by Weenie


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