2018 PRO thread

[bilwit]

The mechanic was pretty controlled, you can tell he was going by his sponsor queues. Nothing especially damning at all. Funny that the podcasters at the end comment on how chain drop is eliminated by using 1x which is the opposite of what the problems Aquablue are complaining about..

[nemeseri]

More like a nightmare for the riders. Cant say I’m the least bit surprised. What I am surprised about is the public bashing by the owner and riders. Can’t imagine that “sponsorship relationship” having much of a future.

When this happens you can be sure that the situation is pretty bad.

[RyanH]

This whole thing amuses me. I can't believe a pro conti team considered 1x and were willing to be the first. I dislike 11-28 enough when I'm riding at max effort in a group (meaning my cadence is dictated by gears available), I can't even imagine what it'd be like with that big of jumps. Plus, isn't the main benefit supposed to be no chain drops?

[pdlpsher1]

This whole thing amuses me. I can't believe a pro conti team considered 1x and were willing to be the first. I dislike 11-28 enough when I'm riding at max effort in a group (meaning my cadence is dictated by gears available), I can't even imagine what it'd be like with that big of jumps. Plus, isn't the main benefit supposed to be no chain drops?

I'm sure 3T is paying Aqua Blue to ride their bikes. Hopefully Aqua Blue can find another bike supplier that will pay as much as 3T. It doesn't look like Aqua Blue has deep pockets.

As for the big gaps between gears, one can get used to it. I have a 11-34 for everyday riding. If a gear is too hard I just downshift one gear, even if my cadence increases dramatically. I just end up with a higher average cadence for the ride, which is OK and good for me physically.

[LeDuke]

It’s rather comical to hear complaints about the slow speed of disc brake wheel changes and throwing chains on 1x bikes when MTB (not just at the World Cup level, either) has had this figured out for years now.




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[LeDuke]

Yeah, you're probably right. I'm sure those F1 teams just turn up on race day and wing it for their 6 second pit stops too - I mean they're all mechanics dealing with those setups day in, day out, fully aware of the tips and tricks to change a wheel on race day.

Absolutely because there is a team of 20 mechanics involved in a wheel change at UCI PT level. Exactly like an F1 pit stop.

Rider holds bike. Mechanic replaces wheel. Rider drinks water. Mechanic rotates crank while rider shifts to usable gear. Rider is off and pedaling in under 20 seconds.

Two people involved. That’s it.


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[RyanH]

As for the big gaps between gears, one can get used to it. I have a 11-34 for everyday riding. If a gear is too hard I just downshift one gear, even if my cadence increases dramatically. I just end up with a higher average cadence for the ride, which is OK and good for me physically.

I purposely specified in hard group rides because when you're putting out peak power, the last thing you want to deal with is adjusting your cadence by 10 rpm for every gear change.

Here's an example of one of those days where I was glad I was on an 11-25. This was riding on Phil Gaimon's wheel up our local Sunday group ride:

https://www.strava.com/activities/15544 ... /6844/7289

For the most part, my cadence is pretty smooth (I shifted a lot) and yes, there were sections where cadence change by 10rpm but that was responding to changes in gradient not because my gearing jumps are huge. If I was on the 3T Bailout cassette on a 40x32 at 100rpm and I needed to shift down, I'd have to drop my cadence by a whopping 20 rpm. That would feel like coming to a grinding halt when you're at your limit.

Again, riding in a group at your limit is not the same as riding by yourself. I think I would be more or less fine with the RPM jumps on gravel or even riding by myself on the road cause I'd just go slower or faster while at my comfortable cadence range. You can't do that in a group ride, changing gears means you have to alter your cadence because your speed is somewhat fixed, or dictated by others.

[tymon_tm]

it's not a question of group ride vs riding by yourself, it's about what you expect from your bike, especially if you do tend to ride hard. I want my bike to make me faster - having proper range of gears enabling me to hold my cadence make me faster. cutting my gear choice in half thus limiting my options to just a couple of usable gears doesn't - it's that simple. one might put as much ideology into 1x as he pleases - but it will never make anyone faster.

[LeDuke]

it's not a question of group ride vs riding by yourself, it's about what you expect from your bike, especially if you do tend to ride hard. I want my bike to make me faster - having proper range of gears enabling me to hold my cadence make me faster. cutting my gear choice in half thus limiting my options to just a couple of usable gears doesn't - it's that simple. one might put as much ideology into 1x as he pleases - but it will never make anyone faster.

Does 2x make someone faster than 3x or 1x?

Or, are you simply stating that gearing is irrelevant?


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[RyanH]

If it's the difference between you getting dropped due to suboptimal cadence or not, then yes, 2x does make you faster.

There's fine/tolerable and then there's better. From strictly a gearing standpoint, I think at best one could argue that you could get used to 1x gear jumps but they'd be lying to themselves if they wouldn't take tighter gearing. E.g. If I presented a person with a 1x11s option and a new fangled 1x13s, but with a price premium, my guess it most would pay the price premium. Why, because despite the rhetoric and defense of 1x road, tighter gearing is better.

So, remind me the benefits of 1x again? So far we have chain drops by WT pro teams, increased drivetrain drag, heavier clutch derailleurs and large jumps in gears.

[pdlpsher1]

I understand the difficulty for some to get used to large gear gaps. What I’m saying is that altering the cadence is actually a good thing even when riding at the limit. A good example is Froome. When he attacks he doesn’t maintain a fixed cadence. He increases and varies his cadence. I think for group rides one can certainly get used to the varied cadence. When you don’t have a choice your body will adapt and it becomes second nature. And after using a 11-34 for a while I do believe the large gaps actually helped me to become a more efficient rider. YMMV.

Since RyanH mentioned Phil Gaimon, today I was passed by Chad Haga. He was on a solo training ride. He had just finished the Giro. I didn’t even attempt to grab his wheels as I was on my tandem, lol. On his leisurely 75mi. solo ride he averaged a normalized power of 255w


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[tymon_tm]

it always makes me laugh when companies introduce a solution to a non existent problem, even more so when people fall for it even though what the product offers clearly contradicts common sense. 1x for high performance road riding/racing is just that and nothing more - an upgrade downgrading your options, a novelty taking you decades back. no one's been losing sleep over having two rings up front and a derailleur, no one's been suffering from having tight cassette spacing, shrinks' offices arent full of cyclists who have to put up with maintaing desired cadence all ride long. but hey - Sram or whoever decided to throw us a rescue wheel anyway. let's thank them for that with our wallets, let's buy whatever crap everyone introduces, because new means better. always and indisputably.

[tymon_tm]

What I’m saying is that altering the cadence is actually a good thing even when riding at the limit.


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wow that's a new one...

[LouisN]

If you look at World Cup level cyclocross, where maybe 90% of the pros still use 2X to be able to get better range on various terrain, one has to wonder if the road 1X gossip will survive....

Louis

[RyanH]

Since RyanH mentioned Phil Gaimon, today I was passed by Chad Haga.

I mentioned him because he's now a regular fixture on our Saturday and Sunday rides.

So, no, this wasn't passing a pro that was in an unknown state in their ride and latching wheel. We line up with him at the base of the climb week after week and hold on as long as we can. I've been fortunate enough that my form has been shaping up enough this year that I'm one of the few that will make the selection at the top (sometimes).