2018 PRO thread

[RyanH]

People are also forgetting that a) Yates blew up because he went too hard and b) Doumolin has been chasing Yates the best he can while Froome has been busy getting "dropped." I'm not a Froome fanboy but I'd think that Doumolin is probably more fatigued than Froome, at least up til today.

Lastly, SeanT1 is correct, this thread is not supposed to devolve into a doping mud slinging shit show. With that being said, can we at least get the basics of doping right? Doping doesn't make you faster, it helps you recover so you can train harder. Unless Froome is doping during the Giro consistently to recover, it's a little too late to start a doping regimen....

[ave]

So, TD waited for Pinot/Reichenbach and that's why the lead grew.
How come it did not shrink on the last climb, which he started "rested". They were seriously overpowered.

[TonyM]

Reichenbach worked a lot and therefore Dumoulin, Pinot, Carabaz and Lopez were not working that much the whole chase until the last climb. That was the purpose to have him.

The theory was that at least for the last climb they would have been able to close some of the gap with Froome.

Froome was just (!) faster after a solo brake away of 70 km than them....

If he is paying that crazy effort tomorrow, then he will win the Giro - and most probably the TdF....

[853guy]

Lastly, SeanT1 is correct, this thread is not supposed to devolve into a doping mud slinging shit show. With that being said, can we at least get the basics of doping right? Doping doesn't make you faster, it helps you recover so you can train harder. Unless Froome is doping during the Giro consistently to recover, it's a little too late to start a doping regimen....

That’s true.

Yet on a forum devoted to cycling, with an inherent interest in pro cycling in particular, we need to accept that in discussing a sport that’s shot itself in the foot over and over again through obfuscation, lies, denials, scandals, cover ups, bribes and gross mismanagement - all out in the public domain and documented in excruciating detail - it’s inevitable that a heightened level of scrutiny and skepticism will exist when the line between performance and performance enhancing is constantly blurred and/or eviscerated.

I personally don’t see why we should have to discuss sport in the absence of the notions of truth and justice.

Best,

853guy

[nemeseri]

I just rewatched the stage. The attack was very-well designed. With Yates dropped, Domoulin felt safe with his huge lead so he was reluctant to put all the chips on the table and follow froome's ultimate attack. Domoulin was sure he had the upper hand 80kms to go with a group. This was the first mistake. Then he waited twice, lost 90seconds on the descends. And when the gap grew to 2 minutes, everybody was tired / had different interests / with no domestics and it was too late.

[wingguy]

So, TD waited for Pinot/Reichenbach and that's why the lead grew.
How come it did not shrink on the last climb, which he started "rested".

Because he didn't.

Reichenbach worked a lot and therefore Dumoulin, Pinot, Carabaz and Lopez were not working that much the whole chase until the last climb.

Come on, did you watch the stage? Dumoulin did more work than Pinot and Reichenbach. Carapaz and Lopez did nothing. Literally not a single turn between them.

[Fiery]

With that being said, can we at least get the basics of doping right? Doping doesn't make you faster, it helps you recover so you can train harder. Unless Froome is doping during the Giro consistently to recover, it's a little too late to start a doping regimen....

But that really depends on the dope, doesn’t it? Blood vector doping absolutely does improve performance in and of itself. Even the late application recovery boosters can’t be disregarded, especially in the third week of a grand tour - after all, isn’t that exactly what Landis had done?

Please don’t take this as me trying to judge one way or the other, I’ll let the future history do that. I’m waiting to see how both Dumoulin and Froome will handle the effects of yesterday’s stage today, that’s the exciting part now.

[liam7020]

Charade of soft pedalling? How does that make any sense at all? If we assume he is doping why would he then decide to create a scenario where he had to pull a massive ride like this out of nowhere, seemingly specifically tailored to make people even more suspicious of him than they were already?

Of course he’s been shamming and pretending all season – just riding off the pace, attacking but not quite following it through, slow wheels changes, soft pedalling through the first week and a half of the Giro etc etc.

I might be COMPLETELY wrong but here’s what I think’s happening. Froome knows he going to get banned and SKY know he’s going to get banned. Now it’s bad enough to get banned but to get banned and have major palmares like a Giro title stripped away is even worse. So, as much as he would love to be on the top step of the podium in Rome and is also undoubtedly capable of doing so, I don’t believe it’s going to be allowed by SKY.

Two things could get in the way of this strategy – Froome/Brailsford’s greed and megalomania might overcome rational thought or Dumoulin may well be so knackered that it will be difficult for Froome to soft pedal slow enough to lose.

On the other hand this could all be a crock of crap but sure we’ll see later today!

[NilesCrane]

Charade of soft pedalling? How does that make any sense at all? If we assume he is doping why would he then decide to create a scenario where he had to pull a massive ride like this out of nowhere, seemingly specifically tailored to make people even more suspicious of him than they were already?

Of course he’s been shamming and pretending all season – just riding off the pace, attacking but not quite following it through, slow wheels changes, soft pedalling through the first week and a half of the Giro etc etc.

I might be COMPLETELY wrong but here’s what I think’s happening. Froome knows he going to get banned and SKY know he’s going to get banned. Now it’s bad enough to get banned but to get banned and have major palmares like a Giro title stripped away is even worse. So, as much as he would love to be on the top step of the podium in Rome and is also undoubtedly capable of doing so, I don’t believe it’s going to be allowed by SKY.

Two things could get in the way of this strategy – Froome/Brailsford’s greed and megalomania might overcome rational thought or Dumoulin may well be so knackered that it will be difficult for Froome to soft pedal slow enough to lose.

On the other hand this could all be a crock of crap but sure we’ll see later today!

I have never read anything as stupid as this. Illuminati level crazy.

Take a break from the giro and go ride your beautiful bike man.

[themidge]

I thought it was pretty clear after the pages and pages of discussion earlier that Froome will not, or at least is very confident that he won't get banned. If he "knows he's going to get banned and sky knows he's going to get banned", he would have taken the hit straight away. His giro title that's looking quite likely is not worth a ban and even more tainted reputation.

Edit: does that count as doping talk? Sorry if it is.

[Sacke]

Let's get back to possible scenarios.

Is it possible that Sunweb would put everything on the line and Tom Dumoulin would go all in?

Do something as crazy as Froome yesterday?

[sychen]

Let's get back to possible scenarios.

Is it possible that Sunweb would put everything on the line and Tom Dumoulin would go all in?

Do something as crazy as Froome yesterday?

Problem with this plan is team sunweb vs team Sky.

We'll see sky train defend and put up fortress froome tdf style.

They'll pace everyone out of the race.

No nibbles/quintana type climbers to yo-yo off the front.

Tom can't ride like that.
Most he can hope for is a bad day for froome.
His only and best chance at Pink in Rome.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Wookski]

With that being said, can we at least get the basics of doping right? Doping doesn't make you faster, it helps you recover so you can train harder. Unless Froome is doping during the Giro consistently to recover, it's a little too late to start a doping regimen....

But that really depends on the dope, doesn’t it? Blood vector doping absolutely does improve performance in and of itself. Even the late application recovery boosters can’t be disregarded, especially in the third week of a grand tour - after all, isn’t that exactly what Landis had done?

Please don’t take this as me trying to judge one way or the other, I’ll let the future history do that. I’m waiting to see how both Dumoulin and Froome will handle the effects of yesterday’s stage today, that’s the exciting part now.

Thank you Mr Doping Overlord

[TonyM]

So, TD waited for Pinot/Reichenbach and that's why the lead grew.
How come it did not shrink on the last climb, which he started "rested".

Because he didn't.

Reichenbach worked a lot and therefore Dumoulin, Pinot, Carabaz and Lopez were not working that much the whole chase until the last climb.

Come on, did you watch the stage? Dumoulin did more work than Pinot and Reichenbach. Carapaz and Lopez did nothing. Literally not a single turn between them.

Yes I did and Reichenbach did work a lot, except in the final climb. As a Domestique this was his job...
Watch the interview post race of Pinot who is thanking him for that!

Here:
https://youtu.be/AECByWAx444

[BdaGhisallo]

So, TD waited for Pinot/Reichenbach and that's why the lead grew.
How come it did not shrink on the last climb, which he started "rested".

Because he didn't.

Reichenbach worked a lot and therefore Dumoulin, Pinot, Carabaz and Lopez were not working that much the whole chase until the last climb.

Come on, did you watch the stage? Dumoulin did more work than Pinot and Reichenbach. Carapaz and Lopez did nothing. Literally not a single turn between them.

Yes I did and Reichenbach did work a lot, except in the final climb. As a Domestique this was his job...
Watch the interview post race of Pinot who is thanking him for that!

Here:
https://youtu.be/AECByWAx444

How effective, though, was the work done by Reichenbach? Didn't seem to be that strong.