2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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bikewithnoname
Posts: 1129
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: UK

by bikewithnoname

Nah, you're still wrong. I'm off for a G&T enjoy your teenage angst
"We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities." Oscar Wilde

Pegoretti Responsorium, Parlee Z5i, Donhou Commuter, 1946 MacLeans Featherweight L'Eroica!, 2x MTB 'dales

wwnick
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 8:49 pm

by wwnick

somebody is going to have to make up a nickname for DeMare.... he is the new teflon don , well not so new, he got away with Milan-San Remo last year

by Weenie


tranzformer
Posts: 875
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:36 pm

by tranzformer

nemeseri wrote:I agree that Cavendish was riding aggressively and ultimately put himself into this. BUT Sagan did throw that elbow (it doesn't matter if that caused the crash or not). He didn't need that and it was a big mistake from him. DSQ is harsh I think the original 80 points penalty sounded more fair. I think that they only DSQ him because Demare is french and they had a chance to put him into green at the end.


Cav has already made contact with the barrier and crashed when Sagan's elbow moves to the outside and hits air. Your reasoning is that although the Cav's crash has already taken place, Sagan should still be penalized for moving his elbow and hitting air? When Sagan is in the middle of a sprint, trying to keep his balance from all the contact Cav has given him and his movement of elbow with no contact is still penalty worthy for you? That is a big extreme, don't you think?

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fa63
Posts: 2367
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, US

by fa63

Sagan thrown out of the race. What a shitty decision. From what I could see, he wasn't at fault.

Rondje
Posts: 1329
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:46 pm
Location: Netherlands

by Rondje

Latest news is that Bora doesn't accept the punishment and wishes to have a talk with the jury and Sagan is still at the hotel.
I can totally see there point, as it's a combination of multiple rider's actions that caused the crash. It might be a bit far fetched, but I wonder how much the move of Demare influenced Sagan's action to maybe avoid Demare.

Ahillock
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:30 am

by Ahillock

Norregard wrote:In slowmotion: https://youtu.be/JOyNOuZSuUw

Does look like he's closing the door. Stage DQ would be justified imo.


Not closing the door at all. It is Demare that instigated the whole chain of events by not following his line and what initiated the cascading events. Sagan is just following Demare's wheel and it is Cavendish that is trying to come up from behind Sagan and move into that tiny gap along the barriers that is shrinking fast. He knows it and we know he knows it as he head butts Sagan as Cav so frequently likes to do. Sagan only used the elbow as I think Cav's handlebar/brake lever/hood is on Sagan's arm as Cavendish is already crashing Sagan's action is a reaction and perfectly reasonable so that he also doesn't crash.

I would like to see the jury's reasoning behind the DQ and how they can say this was intentional on Sagan's part. There was nothing deliberate from what I saw.


Even the Guardian is honest enough to show the true events that happened leading up.

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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... four#img-1

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tymon_tm
Posts: 2838
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

congrats, the Most Stupid Jury Decision Ever Award goes to the idiots who sent Sagan home. I'd freakin protest the shit out of it, including an arbitrary court.

it's not as if Sagan deliberately caused the crash - if he did, then OK, let him learn his lesson. but clearly there's more to it as replays and stills reveal. how stupid and shortsighted race jury has to be is beyond me. and I'm even more baffled how one can take satisfaction from the fact the green jersey competition has been mutilated.

if I were Sagan, I'd never come back to the Tour after something like that
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

antonioiglesius
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:08 pm

by antonioiglesius

I've heard of docking seconds, is this the first time points for a specific jersey has been docked? I don't recall KOM points being removed from anyone. Does ASO just badly want someone else to win the green jersey? I think they changed the point system last year to let others have a chance at the jersey but Sagan won it again anyway.

Rondje
Posts: 1329
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:46 pm
Location: Netherlands

by Rondje

I think they sending Sagan home based on "putting other riders in danger" but if that's the case how on earth can they overlook Demare? He is the one that started this whole chain of events and thanks to Bouhani's riding skills didn't take down Bouhani and everyone behind him. Demare changed his lame twice in the last 100 or so meters, first all the way to the barriers then he switched all the way to the middle.

nemeseri
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm

by nemeseri

tranzformer wrote:
nemeseri wrote:I agree that Cavendish was riding aggressively and ultimately put himself into this. BUT Sagan did throw that elbow (it doesn't matter if that caused the crash or not). He didn't need that and it was a big mistake from him. DSQ is harsh I think the original 80 points penalty sounded more fair. I think that they only DSQ him because Demare is french and they had a chance to put him into green at the end.


Cav has already made contact with the barrier and crashed when Sagan's elbow moves to the outside and hits air. Your reasoning is that although the Cav's crash has already taken place, Sagan should still be penalized for moving his elbow and hitting air? When Sagan is in the middle of a sprint, trying to keep his balance from all the contact Cav has given him and his movement of elbow with no contact is still penalty worthy for you? That is a big extreme, don't you think?


I believe it was an intentional elbowing in the heat of the sprint. He wanted to hit cavendish and penalty was justified by this move. Although I wouldn't dsq him given the crash wasn't clearly caused by this (still not 100% sure it was ok how he closed the door).
Sagan is known for his aggressive style positioning himself, this is part of his great success, so it's inevitable to get into controversies like this.

I think that as a world champ he should be more respectful to others and lately it seems like he is loosing his cool. Look at the intermediate sprint referenced above. He didn't need to bump into Greipel at all, but he did it anyway. I see absolutely no reason.

Ps: I like him a lot and still believe that he is the greatest rider of recent memory. But this move was shady.

KB
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:32 pm
Location: HULL UK

by KB

This is a very harsh decision. I think he was at fault, but not DQ fault.

Antoine
Posts: 519
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: France

by Antoine

decision comes from the UCI's commisaires (not necessary french) , not from ASO

https://twitter.com/_/status/882260461185642496
Why take so much risk for a second or third place ?
Demare was much faster, no way Sagan, Cavendish or Bouhanni could have won. He should have stayed on the right though.
I guess it was out of friendship to Bouhanni.
Sagan is just paying for the wrong moves he's been doing for years.

Why didn't Greipel went on the left of Roelandts instead of waiting and get boxed on the right ? The wind was from the right but not sure it's a factor with so much public.

maquisard
Posts: 2108
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

This is a crazy decision. Cycling only exists at the moment due to sponsorship from bike companies and wealthy individuals. How do you think Specialized will feel when they see such an unfair decision like this with no apparent avenue of appeal. No doubt their legal team is active as I type this.

Furthermore, it is the fact that it is Cav as well. Can who punted Hushovd into the barriers and was DQ'ed from a Tour stage as a result. Cav who brought down Haussler and Gerrans and caused them serious injury, Cav who brought down Dumoulin, Cav who brought down Veelers. Look at his crash in the opening stages in 2014, he is dangerous and has no sense of self preservation.

maquisard
Posts: 2108
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

If it is a UCI decision another nail in the coffin of the shitshow that is Brian Cookson's presidency.

Haydn
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:08 am
Location: UK

by Haydn

tdf nice scenery

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by Weenie


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