2016 'PRO' cycling discussion.

[spdntrxi]

surprising that assso skinsuits haven't received an update in what appears to be like 10 years lol. Colorways change but no tech changes it seems.

Like.. a lot. (except for the wheels)

[jeffy]

So are Bora buying their own groupset? I thought Shimano sponsored had to use wheels?

[mattr]

My point on Assos pricing themselves out of the market. They have always operated at a high price point, I never disputed that. However they have moved their price point upwards.

I have a couple of Assos 851 jackets, circa, 2005-2011, they are fantastic, but I didn't pay £230-250 which is what the current haBU replacement retails for. The 851 was more like £130-160.

Similarly I bought a couple of pairs of S7 Equipe bib shorts during the summer. I paid about £140 each for them, ten years ago I was paying about £70-90 for the S3 or more recently £110 for the S5. It was actually difficult to source the Assos bibs locally as the shops I visited commented that Assos stuff is just too expensive nowadays and everyone is buying Castelli.

Those price increases I have noted are above and beyond inflation, hence I think it is fair to say that Assos have priced themselves out of their previous market position.

Nah, they've just stopped discounting so much. 851 used to retail at something like 190 quid, it was struggle to find anyone in the UK selling them at that. I think i paid about 140 for mine (2006), but also bought another jacket and two sets of full winter longs (all assos). Got about 200 quid off soemthing like 700 quids worth of kit.

[mattr]

Just checked, 851 retailed at 240 quid in 2006/7. As far as i can tell.

[Rondje]

the issue with assos is the design vs the old loved s5.
the pronounced bulge on the formed chamois
no color choices. black only.
the leg grippers tech is circa 1995. castelli leg grippers are vastly superior
style - rapha rip off. ironic assos need to emulate the usurper

All black bibs is how it should be. Especially white bibs should be forbidden
How is Assos a Rapha rip off? Sorry, I don't see the same style at all. There is 1 jersey with a colored sleeve, but thats it.
I've had 1 Assos jersey but the style usually isn't my cup of tea. Bibs however are my nr1 pick, every now and then I buy something else to try it, but I still like theirs. Base layers and accessories are also good. Quality wise the products are still good and specially durable. In my experience Rapha has lost some quality when they gained the big popularity they have now.

[pastronef]

So are Bora buying their own groupset? I thought Shimano sponsored had to use wheels?

Shimano adapted their contracts not to be so strict:

for Leopard-Trek, then Radioshack, then Trek, Shimano is a sponsor, and the team use Trek´s brand wheels (Bontrager).
same as with Bora, Shimano is a sponsor, but with Specy brand wheels (Roval).

the last, and very rare, full blown Shimano sponsorship was Argos-Shimano.
shimano/pro wheels, pearl izumi kit, pro handlebars/stem, pro saddles, shimano groups, shimano shoes.

LottoJumbo will use shimano groups, wheels, kit, shoes and glasses.
saddles and handlebars/stem from other brands
Sunweb Giant will use shimano groups, wheels, shoes, handlebars/stem and saddles
glasses and kit from other brands

[wingguy]

Thats true. Castelli are no where close to Assos quality / style.

Agree on the build quality, strongly disagree on the style - unless the Germanic look* (by which I mean the 'Hugo Boss Waffen SS collection') comes back into fashion sometime soon

Possibly as a result of not having a demanding Pro team to look after Assos has missed the zeitgeist that Castelli have spearheaded - the pure race bred collection of aero is everything, lightweight is everything, put stretchy bits here, put see through mesh there, lazer cut everything that doesn't absolutely need to be stitched instead... Assos have for the most part stayed the conservative course of aiming for comfort, durability and quality - the things that most high end consumers actually need, but not what we think we want



(This means they've also completely missed out on the other major trend - hipster chic!)

[Vagabond]

Assos is only priced too high for people who really haven't given it a go for many days in rough conditions. Their stuff is simply superb. The only thing of the same quality and performance is Q36.5. These two lines are worth every penny spent.

[maquisard]

Just checked, 851 retailed at 240 quid in 2006/7. As far as i can tell.

Where did you check that mattr, do tell?

If you look at Parker International's website from 2005 it sold for £152.99, the Fugu jacket ( very bulky and designed for sub-zero ) was £279.99

http://web.archive.org/web/200604112133 ... Jackets/v/

The modern equivalent of the 851 is the iJ.haBu5 which retails for £230, the Fugu equivalent is the iJ.bonka.6 retailing for £350.

I think that is what is called increasing your price point.

[Kjetil]

The iJ.Bonka.6 is actually the replacement of the Airjack 851. The iJ.Habu.5 has no predecessor. The Fugujack has no heir.
That said, the new winter Millejacket_EVO7 is said to cover the Bonka and the lower Habu temperature range at a slightly less disagreeable price point: GBP 190.

The notion that Assos' style is a Rapha rip off: That's plainly wrong.

..

Happy Christmas all!

[mattr]

Just checked, 851 retailed at 240 quid in 2006/7. As far as i can tell.

Where did you check that mattr, do tell?

I found a review of it from that sort of period.

[Wookski]

Anyone have any idea what Sagan would get a year for that?

I dont know, but I am amazed Oakley couldnt match their offer.
ffs you dont let Sagan go! he won 2 Worlds and a bunch of races, keep him.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 100% deal included equity.

As for the comment re: style points, name an Oakley model that wouldn't look out of place on the head of your local meth dealer

[maquisard]

Review of Assos 851 from 2008, RRP £175, sells for less in shops as my other link showed.

https://roadcyclinguk.com/news/rides-ne ... FGSMCrc.97

[Wookski]

Just checked, 851 retailed at 240 quid in 2006/7. As far as i can tell.

Where did you check that mattr, do tell?

If you look at Parker International's website from 2005 it sold for £152.99, the Fugu jacket ( very bulky and designed for sub-zero ) was £279.99

http://web.archive.org/web/200604112133 ... Jackets/v/

The modern equivalent of the 851 is the iJ.haBu5 which retails for £230, the Fugu equivalent is the iJ.bonka.6 retailing for £350.

I think that is what is called increasing your price point.

So you're calling a 2.3 to 4% annual price inflation rate a material shift in price point? The sport has changed considerably over a decade with an increase in global popularity and the addition of new market segments (i.e Aspirational buyers). There are also many new entrants/ competitors which may prompt an increase in price to maintain the same market position.

So yes, prices a decade ago were lower then they are now

[mattr]

Review of Assos 851 from 2008, RRP £175, sells for less in shops as my other link showed.

which is actually the main thrust of my point. When I was in a position to be able to justify buying Assos quality kit (10000+km a year in all weathers) it was discounted massively. None of the half dozen or so pairs of shorts I had were priced at more than 50/60% of RRP. Most of the rest of the kit i had was at least 30% off. And that was on current year kit.

Now we have the situation where there are three (?) manufacturers competing in the same market place. And the market place is now massive. And fashion driven instead of quality/function driven. (Though much of the kit is top end quality/function anyway. Some of it is shit.)

And whether the 851 was 175 or 240 10 years ago, it's replacement is only 230 ish. Which is so far from a price point shift is almost funny. If anything, it's got cheaper in real terms. Except for virtually no one discounting in amy serious sense.