Moderator: Moderator Team
Cielo by Chris King Cross Racer
Indeed, mathematically it counts double but then get's evened out by sideeffects. But that's not what was being put forward:Rick wrote:But the statement that "rotational weight counts double" is not exactly a "nonsensical idea" since it actually is counted "double" in the math...even though it does not apparently end up making the bike faster.
Ozrider, since 600gms of that weight is rotatonal (wheels) you cant multiply that by 2 (1200gms) and the remainder of the 1500gms is static (900gms). In effect it' equates to 2100gms(2.1kgs) difference if the weight was static which is a significant amount considering upper end bikes are circa 7kgs
That's quite simply so missleading it's just nonsense.
Now to your hypothesis: This is not supported by the analysis, as that outcome actually indicates it's so small an effect that you hardly will notice it. This is pacelining which gives very minor speed jumps for very, very short periods. And to make that one even more apparent... we are talking loosing the group which means all meters are far in the red. At that moment we can notice a difference which for all purposes is unnoticeable?
Somehow people have this idea that a cyclist has much larger accelerations than we actually have. The forces involved are minor.
So the light bike effect is psychological for sure... PLACEBO. As with any of these things I'm certain a double blind test will show that it's all in between the ears. This has been shown by frame materials too, something which people still maintain they can feel.
=> Still talking Paceline, not talking climbing.
So to sum up: A lighter bike with same aerodynamic properties is a bit faster on the flats, but this is extremely minor. The reported differences are nowhere near what is supported by math. Weight at the rim or at the frame also doesn't really matter, it's the total weight that counts. Lastly, even Cavendish has a minor acceleration all things involved. That's not to downplay cycling, it's just how it works. Mass and acceleration are pretty small things in the whole picture (that changes quite a bit when climbing ofc).
Franklin wrote:Again: your "no doubt" is based on faith, not physics. The location of the weight matters not. And now to go back to my post: I dismissed the nonsensical idea that rotational weight counts double. Are you not only arguing the math is wrong, you also argue it's twice as important?
Oh and to nail that one down with Thor's hammer: The math show that when climbing wheel weight is not more important than frameweight... people here are arguing how light wheels help with the pacelining
Err... oops... I completely mis-read what was happening in the equations there. Indeed, location of weight doesn't matter...
That being said, generally "light" wheels goes hand-in-hand with stiffer, aero - which at least feel faster.
Anyways my main point here is how subjective this question really is. The more aero bike IS faster, that doesn't mean it feels that way...
But for the purpose of this thread; if he had a lighter bike he certainly would be faster in a climb. During the paceline it wouldn't matter as much, though that bag sure will catch some air which would certainly hamper his efforts.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Parlee Z5 XL (6055g/13.32lbs) Trek Madone 5.9 (7052-7500g)Jonesman Columbus Spirit (8680g)
Chase your dreams - it's only impossible until it's done
If both of the bikes were on the same wheels, I don't think it would be that noticeable.
Heavy bike uses 27" wheels with 1 1/8" wide conti's while the light bike uses kysriums with 23c front/25c rear. I may swap the 700c's to the heavy bike to try it out, but I wouldn't have the brake reach for the conversion and it would be dangerous.
I have never left a rest stop where I filled up and thought my bike felt harder to pedal, maintain speed, or accelerate. At any given time, I could not tell you how filled or empty those bottles were by the feel of my bike.
- Similar Topics
- Last post
- 10 Replies
- 940 Views
Last post by Rondje
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:51 pm
- 4 Replies
- 589 Views
Last post by NiFTY
Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:03 pm
- 26 Replies
- 2471 Views
Last post by chunky666
Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:33 pm
- 21 Replies
- 1750 Views
Last post by Multebear
Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:07 am
- 3 Replies
- 919 Views
Last post by MayhemSWE
Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:20 pm