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Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:48 am
by Northoceanbeach
I always wanted a colnago. I like a lot of the steel Italian bikes. But now that Carbon has taken over has the innovation also started to shift? I'm no expert by any means, but it looks like Germany is leading the way with a lot of the newest and lightest bikes and parts.

I don't know if they have any full on component manufacturers.

Am I wrong? I know USA and Italy do a lot. But are they leading?

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:18 am
by TimmS
Germsany is leader in tuning, with brands like Tune, Schmolke, AX Lightnes and Lightweight.
They also have a few small but innovative brands like Storck and Liteville.

If it comes to industry leader in bikes I would say USA, with brands like Cannondale, Scott and Specialized.

(Off course China is leading in production!)

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:26 am
by imageking
Aren't Focus & canyon both German?

they seem to leading the way in pricing models ....

I looked at a Bianchi Oltre XR EPS SR, for the price of it £9500 I could buy a Canyon & the Bianchi frame at full price and still save a £grand

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:27 am
by konky
It would be interesting to hear who sells the most quality mid market bikes. I agree Cannondale and Specialized have to be up there. The sort of bike I guess most of us WW users buy.

Having said that I think Germany have to be industry leaders in the top end market. For me anyway. My money not a major issue build is almost exclusively German. Frame, fork, wheels, bar, stem, seatpost, and saddle are all from Germany. I chose the parts because for me they are the best, not because they are German.

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:19 pm
by Stockie
@konky: what are those parts?

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:20 pm
by konky
Frame Storck
Fork THM
Wheels Lightweight
Bar and Seatpost Schmolke
Stem and Saddle AX Lightness

A bit predictable I know but I wanted 100% reliability with this build. It's my everyday summer bike.

Groupset is hidden Shimano Di2 by the way.

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:29 pm
by Pharmstrong
TimmS wrote:If it comes to industry leader in bikes I would say USA, with brands like Cannondale, Scott and Specialized.


Was not a German (Denk) responsible for the engineering on many of Scott and then Cannondale's recent bikes? I think Germany is in this position because of a strong attitude towards engineering, and an education system to support it, but I guess more importantly the right economic environment for a lot of these smaller specialised firms to prosper.

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:50 pm
by stephen@fibre-lyte
There's no doubting that German engineering is exceptional and always has been. I think that you have to remember we are in a global market now and parts manufactured in a certain country may not be 'of' that country. A typical example is F1. Many of the F1 teams are UK based but I'll bet that the employees are from many countries. With bikes most of the major brands will have multi national employees. The high end parts are still predominantly German made, but the bikes they will be on will no doubt have parts from all over the world. I really don't think that you can say that any one country is a world leader. For me, the most innovative current product is Sram XX1. That'll be the USA then...

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:58 pm
by prendrefeu
TimmS wrote:If it comes to industry leader in bikes I would say USA, with brands like Cannondale, Scott and Specialized.


Scott is a Swiss company, btw. They sell heavily in Germany as well.

konky wrote:It would be interesting to hear who sells the most quality mid market bikes.


Merida, Giant. Worldwide, its not even close for 'mid-market' bikes.
Both are Taiwan based.

"Industry leader" for boutique tech?
Germany.

"Industry leader" for composite tech?
Germany.

"Industry leader" for marketing?
United States or Italy.

"Industry leader" for production?
Taiwan. China is closing in fast though.
That isn't a metaphor.

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:19 pm
by kgt
IME the finest riding machines are still italian.

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:23 pm
by konky
It depends on how you define 'industry leader'. Are we talking volume or best quality or something else. By best quality I mean best combination of weight, stiffness, function and durability. If you want these qualities it's very hard to avoid German.

( I just remembered I am using one other non German part on my build other than core groupset. It's Fibrelyte chainrings. For me they have the best combination of above stated qualities available. And well priced too, unlike the German stuff.)

Well done Britain!

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:32 pm
by XCProMD
stephen@fibre-lyte wrote:There's no doubting that German engineering is exceptional and always has been. I think that you have to remember we are in a global market now and parts manufactured in a certain country may not be 'of' that country. A typical example is F1. Many of the F1 teams are UK based but I'll bet that the employees are from many countries. With bikes most of the major brands will have multi national employees. The high end parts are still predominantly German made, but the bikes they will be on will no doubt have parts from all over the world. I really don't think that you can say that any one country is a world leader. For me, the most innovative current product is Sram XX1. That'll be the USA then...

Meeec! Sram an.American company, but the XX1 was d :?: Ooo :( eveloped im Germany, in Schweinfurt, were Sachs was based.

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:43 pm
by NiFTY
Whilst merida manufactures in taiwan its management and design headquarters are in germany.

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:59 pm
by stella-azzurra
kgt wrote:IME the finest riding machines are still italian.


This has no bias at all except for the fact you own a wilier and colnago right? :lol:

I can see this post becoming nationalistic and self-righteous. :oops: :lol:

Re: Is Germany becoming an industry leader?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:47 pm
by Grill
I own a bunch of Scotts but would trade them for Storcks at the drop of a hat. No bias here :P