2024 Pro thread

[eins4eins]

He won huge races likes MSR, Amstel, Gent-Wevelgem or E3. Finished on the podium of almost every other big race. The one day format isn't his problem.
This years world champ course has too much elevation gain and this simply favours other riders.

[Mr.Gib]

He won huge races likes MSR, Amstel, Gent-Wevelgem or E3. Finished on the podium of almost every other big race. The one day format isn't his problem.
This years world champ course has too much elevation gain and this simply favours other riders.

While 4400 meters is a lot, I think the real obstacle is the 1km at 12% to Kyburg. So if it would have been too much for a guy like Van Aert, who do people consider to be the number 4 favourite in the race after the obvious top three?

As for Van Aert, twice 2nd and a 4th in the last 4 years in the World Championships is not a bad record. And his form lately was surpisingly good.

[EtoDemerzel]

Pog is my heavy favorite. Just looking at the prelim start list:
Skejelmose, O'Connor, Hirschi, Jorgensen, Remco, MVDP...

Remco is racing in Britan and not looking that great. Maybe he's just taking it as a training race and putting in race miles. But he and Alaphillipe are not looking so pointy there.

Kyburg is going to be selective but so is Zurichburgstrasse and Witikon. Who has good 1km power on 12%-16% gradients to create breaks and seperation?

[tymon_tm]

WVA is always talked about, always considered amongst the few absolute top names in nearly any race, yet his palmares seem to be only good enough to keep this conversation alive. he hasn't produced anything close to what "his greatest rival" MVDP has, and even the "GC guys", Pog and Remco, are at least a level above.

[EtoDemerzel]

WVA is always talked about, always considered amongst the few absolute top names in nearly any race, yet his palmares seem to be only good enough to keep this conversation alive. he hasn't produced anything close to what "his greatest rival" MVDP has, and even the "GC guys", Pog and Remco, are at least a level above.

Wout has won E3 twice, Strade Bianchi, Amstel, Ghent, Omloop Het, 9 stages in the Tour de France, 3 Vuelta... the guy is a generational talent along with the others mentioned.
The discussion is moot anyway, his knee is banged up and will be watching on tv along with the rest of us.

[Mr.Gib]

The thing that leaves a bad taste regarding WVA's relative lack of victories (56 pro wins ), is that he missed the key monuments this year, flatted at a critical moment at PR last year, and on a few other occasions has just been beaten at the line. With the slightest change in circumstances here and there, the story would be quite different. And IIRC, he also gave a victory at Ghent Wevelgem to Laporte. I also see him as a rider with real integrity - no cheap wheel sucking games in breakaways, etc. The man does an honest days work on the bike. IMO he deserves whatever status fans and the cycling press have granted him.

[LeDuke]

The thing that leaves a bad taste regarding WVA's relative lack of victories (56 pro wins ), is that he missed the key monuments this year, flatted at a critical moment at PR last year, and on a few other occasions has just been beaten at the line. With the slightest change in circumstances here and there, the story would be quite different. And IIRC, he also gave a victory at Ghent Wevelgem to Laporte. I also see him as a rider with real integrity - no cheap wheel sucking games in breakaways, etc. The man does an honest days work on the bike. IMO he deserves whatever status fans and the cycling press have granted him.

This.

Plus, he’s a guy that a GC rider will potentially ruin their own race for. See: Kuss doing a massive amount of work him to help him win a stage. Then, his own comments. He knows Sepp didn’t have to do it, and made it known how much it meant to him and how much he appreciated Kuss doing the work for him.

He’s a bike racer’s bike racer. He’s a consummate teammate.


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[Mr.Gib]

He's definitely had a few hard knocks. Don't forget the hip that was torn open on a improperly placed crowd barrier, of course the stupid crash at Dwars this year, and now his knee courtesy of following an inexperienced rider on a no-go descent. There is a good argument that none of this should have happened - more than just bad racing luck. And yet each of these events will damage his legacy. If you watch the documentary that Visma released a few weeks ago, there is a message scene where you can see the scar on his hip. It's massive. What a gruesome injury that must have been.

[Requiem84]

WvA's problem is that his weakness are the lengths of the monuments.

The E3 is basically the same parcours as the Tours de Flanders, going over the same hills. But it's 207km, whereas the Flanders is 275.

He can follow VdP's attacks for a while, but at some point he just breaks earlier if the accelerations keep coming.

Physiology, I suspect his W-prime (work capacity above threshold) is lower. His anaerobic tank has the same strength as VdP, but the size of the tank is smaller. If you keep pushing him, that tank will run empty and he just has to park (see Worlds in Glasgow).

WvA on the other hand seems to have a crazy aerobic capacity, the reason why he can climb so well and why he recovers much better than VdP in Grand Tours. He can ride around threshold for a longggg time.

Unfortubately, that's not a strength that helps you in the typical one day races (apart from PR maybe).

He's good. But he missed the last few %. It's not only bad luck, it's a matter of physiology in relation to the parcours.

[tymon_tm]

yes - he's a brilliant rider. very capable and versatile too. has had some bad luck, but some nice victories under his belt as well. that's all agreed upon. BUT - he's not lived up to the expectations and his results aren't really impressive compared to MVDP and two others, whose names are so obvious it's better to type this longish sentence than just repeat "Pog and Remco" all over again

at the end of the day it doesn't matter "how a rider lost a race" - whether he had a flat/crash, came 2nd or gave away a victory. sure it would be pertinent if we discussed a single race, but when we look at a broad picture - few seasons, a whole career - it's the bare results and numbers that do the talking

[LouisN]

Don't forget he's a totally different built than his so called "rivals".

Louis

[Karvalo]

And IIRC, he also gave a victory at Ghent Wevelgem to Laporte.

In some respects that season is his one day career in a microcosm. He dominated the majority of CX races he turned up to, including head to heads with MvdP, then was beaten in a straight fight at the World Champs. After being beaten in MSR he seemed to be in red hot form again for the cobbled season... before being soundly beaten at RVV and losing out at PR, and that's it. A season of spectacular promise ends with an E3 win to show for it.

Nothing to diminish the talent that he has - but when the fight already involves a rider with six monuments and a rainbow jersey, one 4 years younger with six monuments, and one 5 years younger with two monuments, a rainbow jersey and a gold bike then it's just not right to say the win would be diminished because a rider who won MSR once isn't there.

[spud]

I get the feeling that WVA races hard ALL.THE.TIME. And it's to his detriment when the really imporant races happen.

[spokenwords]

Just read that the triathlete that was going to win the Tour for Jayco, and thereby putting Ben O' into permanent domestique duties, is going to remain in Tri. Wants to focus on the Olympic tri again (he is gonna tri again, i guess). Basically what this means is, Jayco didnt sign him.

[tymon_tm]

Don't forget he's a totally different built than his so called "rivals".

Louis

Remco's also built differently than his "rival" Pog

and Lance was built differently than Jan, Froome was different than Bertie, McEwen than Cipo... the list goes on

Just read that the triathlete that was going to win the Tour for Jayco, and thereby putting Ben O' into permanent domestique duties, is going to remain in Tri. Wants to focus on the Olympic tri again (he is gonna tri again, i guess). Basically what this means is, Jayco didnt sign him.

pity, would've made things a bit more interesting (at least on paper)