2024 Pro thread

[Jonolsson]

Gazzeta says Pellizari goes to Bora

Enviado desde mi POCO F2 Pro mediante Tapatalk

[tymon_tm]

another record courtesy of Giro - only 8 full pages have been 'covered' during the entire race here on WW. and it wasn't even all about the Giro...

[maquisard]

The Giro was an interesting race from stage to stage, but as a GC race it was pretty poor from a fan's perspective other than to be in awe at Pogacar's sheer dominance. I really hope the TdF is more of a contest in the GC. That is not to fault Pogacar, he can only race who turns up and he is a magnitude ahead of anyone else.

[MiSzA (PL)]

I wish to see a GT that would have a proper prologue, 30-40k flatish ITT, technical but not narrow 40-50k TTT and stages not longer than 150k. That would be interseting to see how teams would suit up for such GT as it would be more balanced - no climbers / sprinters only teams! That would aslo make the race more aggressive and snappy - in a good sense.

[DanW]

I wish to see a GT that would have a proper prologue, 30-40k flatish ITT, technical but not narrow 40-50k TTT and stages not longer than 150k. That would be interseting to see how teams would suit up for such GT as it would be more balanced - no climbers / sprinters only teams! That would aslo make the race more aggressive and snappy - in a good sense.

Those longer TT stages create large time gaps which can lead to quite defensive riding unless they are one of the last stages. Kind of similar with a longer TTT and as far as I have heard virtually everyone hates riding them. The race dynamics after team based large splits would be a rubbish spectacle. Fans always say they want short, mad stages but most riders again generally dislike them in a GT as there is more chaos, more risks taken and it takes away a little from the attritional nature of a GT. A GT of one day classics sounds good from a fan perspective but would be a nightmare IMO.

I actually thought the general layout of this year's Giro was pretty balanced and seemed to go down well with the riders (minus chaotic last minute stage decisions). It did lack a bit of the spectacle in the route but as a race route it was pretty decent IMO. Le Le Tour take care of the spectacle aspect of GT racing

[BdaGhisallo]

I wish to see a GT that would have a proper prologue, 30-40k flatish ITT, technical but not narrow 40-50k TTT and stages not longer than 150k. That would be interseting to see how teams would suit up for such GT as it would be more balanced - no climbers / sprinters only teams! That would aslo make the race more aggressive and snappy - in a good sense.

I would love to see a TdF TTT but have it ridden on mass-start legal bikes. I would also like to see an ITT in that format too.

[TobinHatesYou]

I wish to see a GT that would have a proper prologue, 30-40k flatish ITT, technical but not narrow 40-50k TTT and stages not longer than 150k. That would be interseting to see how teams would suit up for such GT as it would be more balanced - no climbers / sprinters only teams! That would aslo make the race more aggressive and snappy - in a good sense.

Just imagine a 21 stage race as a points based omnium.

[tymon_tm]

TTs benefit already stronger teams and those 2-3 riders who everyone talks about. and TTTs are even worse in that regard. climbers or stronger 'puncheurs' who could try to mix things up GC-wise lose minutes in TTs and any incentive to attack later on.

stages are already short and punchy, i'm not sure what more could we want? ultimately it's the riders who make for interesting racing. and show me a team which brings "only climbers" or sprinters lol. even Fassa Bortolo used to bring Aitor Gonzalez to GTs..

[TobinHatesYou]

Puncheurs and sprinters are quite good in TTTs. It’s basically 30s at 125-130% of FT and then 3.5+ minutes rest depending on whether you have someone like Ganna doing 60s pulls or a climber basically pulling off after 12 seconds.

[MDecius]

I didn't know that riders had any dislike of doing TTTs... Is it the risk of crashes?

From a relatively new fan's perspective, I really like the "classic" GT format of prologue, ITT, and TTT. I wonder if including TTTs in the races would impact the overall team makeup enough to consider bringing more powerful riders to the grand tours rather than just a team of climbing lieutenants for the leader (who is also a climber).

[tymon_tm]

again - these big engine guys are in every GC-oriented team. who do you think works on flats?

I'd love to see a different approach - short ITT, a lot more "classic" stages, and all high mountain stages limited to max. ~160km lenght. anythng to throw these powerfull teams off balance and make room for more daring riders and some unexpected stuff. oh, and throw race radios out while we're at it..

[TobinHatesYou]

I didn't know that riders had any dislike of doing TTTs... Is it the risk of crashes?

From a relatively new fan's perspective, I really like the "classic" GT format of prologue, ITT, and TTT. I wonder if including TTTs in the races would impact the overall team makeup enough to consider bringing more powerful riders to the grand tours rather than just a team of climbing lieutenants for the leader (who is also a climber).

The problem with TTs and TTTs is how heavily equipment based they are. If your team isn't on Conti GP5K TTs or Vittoria Corsa Pro Speeds, you're automatically at a disadvantage. If your helmet, speedsuit, etc. aren't up top snuff, you can lose minutes over the course of three races against the clock.

[BdaGhisallo]

I didn't know that riders had any dislike of doing TTTs... Is it the risk of crashes?

From a relatively new fan's perspective, I really like the "classic" GT format of prologue, ITT, and TTT. I wonder if including TTTs in the races would impact the overall team makeup enough to consider bringing more powerful riders to the grand tours rather than just a team of climbing lieutenants for the leader (who is also a climber).

The problem with TTs and TTTs is how heavily equipment based they are. If your team isn't on Conti GP5K TTs or Vittoria Corsa Pro Speeds, you're automatically at a disadvantage. If your helmet, speedsuit, etc. aren't up top snuff, you can lose minutes over the course of three races against the clock.

Run them using mass-start bike and kit tech.

[DanW]

Run them using mass-start bike and kit tech.

"Road bike" TTs have been a thing in the UK for a while and lots of clubs have run these for ages. Ultimately it is very hard to establish rules for these as TT frames are "road legal" and you end up with the fastest tyres on the max rim depth allowed by the rules at the time by that event, skin suits much the same, helmets are restricted compared to a regular TT, positions get close to TT with forearms resting on very wide flat top drop bars...

Basically it is a good theory but just ends up pretty much a regular TT on convoluted bikes

[DanW]

I didn't know that riders had any dislike of doing TTTs... Is it the risk of crashes?

It seems to be partly that the best teams (money and skill gaps) just get bigger time gaps than they otherwise would on a different stage so the entire GT becomes more predictable and also that not many teams spend much time actually practicing. Imagine how stressful GT prep must be without throwing in yet another discipline. Team pursuit teams aren't built overnight and it's a highly specialist thing to do- might as well throw in a BMX stage to diversify skills even further

On the people saying they want one day style routes and road surfaces... the response from the GT guys when they see those parcours is always "great another year they want one of us to crash out in a horrific manner for some light TV entertainment".

For me I think team sizes and team budgets are the real ones which affects how much a team can control a race and deal with misfortune.