2024 Pro thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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GaBa
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:01 pm

by GaBa

Based on Pogačar's comments it was ISP that drove the fielad after the crash.

by Weenie


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eins4eins
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by eins4eins

No fault in pressing on with 100k to go in a one day race. Race is on at that point and if a favorite is caught behind a crash because he's at the back of the peloton, thats his problem.

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

spud wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:16 pm
Only watched women's highlights, but watching the sprint unfold, I knew Vollering was not going to win - trying to sprint from the back of the front group was a tactical mistake. Better to get beaten by a faster rider than beaten by a slower rider. It's hardly the first time I've seen a rider used to winning off the front get beaten in a tactical sprint, I suspect she's going to be thinking about that loss for a while.
Yes that was really odd unless she felt totally cooked. Could only think that maybe she hadn't seen the split in the group and didn't realise quite how far back she was in distance?

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

tymon_tm wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 11:50 am
there were recently some interestng words from Gilbert also - he basically said Pog's on track to winning all there is to win in cycling; he starts off with races where climbing is a decisive factor, cause he's young and skinny, but as he suggests, as years pass atheletes' bodies do transform, bulk up so to speak, and PG sees this as a way forward for Pog's development.

according to PCS Pog weighs 66kg at 1.76. well, my 'peak' weight is 64kg at 178, so from my POV he's on the chubby side already :lol:
Looking at his stats vs what seemed like a golden era with Boonen and Cancellara puts it in perspective too - Boonen won his last Monument at 31 and Cancellara at 34 (I think) and they both took 8 or 9 years to collect their 7 wins apiece. Pog may well have 7 by the end of this year, at 25, in the space of 4 seasons. He actually has a better Monument win rate than Merckx did at the same point - though that's a quite skewed because Merckx entered them all, not just his favourites.

spud
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by spud

Karvalo wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:15 pm
spud wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:16 pm
Only watched women's highlights, but watching the sprint unfold, I knew Vollering was not going to win - trying to sprint from the back of the front group was a tactical mistake. Better to get beaten by a faster rider than beaten by a slower rider. It's hardly the first time I've seen a rider used to winning off the front get beaten in a tactical sprint, I suspect she's going to be thinking about that loss for a while.
Yes that was really odd unless she felt totally cooked. Could only think that maybe she hadn't seen the split in the group and didn't realise quite how far back she was in distance?
A reasonable question - "am I too cooked to do a decent sprint?" To me, she seemed like the fastest rider in the group, given the way she came back but man, she left it at least 50 meters too late. Maybe she was phobic about getting forced to the front too early, given that she had the best pedigree in that group. But small groups like that often start to disintegrate in the sprint after a long hard race.

jesper2913
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by jesper2913

tymon_tm wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 11:50 am
there were recently some interestng words from Gilbert also - he basically said Pog's on track to winning all there is to win in cycling; he starts off with races where climbing is a decisive factor, cause he's young and skinny, but as he suggests, as years pass atheletes' bodies do transform, bulk up so to speak, and PG sees this as a way forward for Pog's development.

according to PCS Pog weighs 66kg at 1.76. well, my 'peak' weight is 64kg at 178, so from my POV he's on the chubby side already :lol:
And this makes sense because Gilbert himself did it that way (missed MSR though). He won the hilly monuments early/mid his career. With GDL in 2009 and 2010, LBL in 2011. And then later on in 2017 RVV and P-R in 2019. So he probably gained some weight later on in his career and targetted the monuments more suited for that kind of rider. He also won some Amstels and a Fleche Wallone. In 2011 he cleaned out the whole Ardenne week with Amstel, LFW and LBL. 80 wins through his whole career, and four of them being monuments. And not to forget one WC. What a champion.
Last edited by jesper2913 on Mon Apr 22, 2024 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ave
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by ave

jesper2913 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 4:50 pm
80 wins through his whole career, and four of them being monuments.
Won Lombardia twice, so that's five. He was mega.

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LouisN
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by LouisN

spud wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 4:29 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:15 pm
spud wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:16 pm
Only watched women's highlights, but watching the sprint unfold, I knew Vollering was not going to win - trying to sprint from the back of the front group was a tactical mistake. Better to get beaten by a faster rider than beaten by a slower rider. It's hardly the first time I've seen a rider used to winning off the front get beaten in a tactical sprint, I suspect she's going to be thinking about that loss for a while.
Yes that was really odd unless she felt totally cooked. Could only think that maybe she hadn't seen the split in the group and didn't realise quite how far back she was in distance?
A reasonable question - "am I too cooked to do a decent sprint?" To me, she seemed like the fastest rider in the group, given the way she came back but man, she left it at least 50 meters too late. Maybe she was phobic about getting forced to the front too early, given that she had the best pedigree in that group. But small groups like that often start to disintegrate in the sprint after a long hard race.
The fight for the win started way back from a few km's back. Tough women were in there including KN and ELB, and GB who was in fire. Attacks were flying so no one came with fresh legs at the 300 m mark. When Kasia went (early) Vollering was left behind and had no choice but chasing for a while, while Chabbey just followed her.
Longo Borgini might think that one again...if she didn't wait that long before going past Niewiadona (for the chase to get by them) she would have won that one for sure.
Louis :)

jesper2913
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by jesper2913

What I was most impressed over with the mens LBL was Bardet. Being the best of the rest is no small accomplishment.

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spokenwords
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by spokenwords

Bardet was a surprise podium finisher. I doubt anyone had him top 3. A really strong effort from him and it was great to see him dig deep and stay away. Bernal really coming back to the top too. Also, great to see. A bit surprised to see Pidcock fade away again. Maybe all part of the plan but I am anticipating Bernal will be the team leader for the Tour.
Curious how De Lie is recovering from Lime disease. Anyone heard how he is doing.
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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

yeah Bardet seemed quite impressive at that time; i really thought he's like in his very late 30s, don't know why, he just seems 'old' and for that reason only it made me happy to see him escaping other 'kids'. but then I checked - Bardet's only 33... that doesn't take away anything from his achievement but he feels like one of these riders constantly at the verge of underdelivering of failing massively, only to produce some respectable result, almost out of the blue.

and while wer'e still at Liege; during tv broadcast, when MVDPs group seemed to be doomed, there was this lenghty few-minute commercial break, and after i got back live suddenly both groups were back together. I wasn't thinking much of it, but this piece sheds some light on the matter. and it's not a kind gleam for race judges, who apparently once again gave every reason to throw empty bidons at them...

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/roa ... -for-free/
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

tymon_tm wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:46 pm
I wasn't thinking much of it, but this piece sheds some light on the matter. and it's not a kind gleam for race judges, who apparently once again gave every reason to throw empty bidons at them...
Advocating throwing things at judges is not a good look either. I thought we were trying to stop throwing things generally :noidea:

The decision by the commissaires to bring up the cars was a reasonable comprimise in the circumstance. They had to take the the chance that they might influence the third spot on the podium to avoid a risk that a mechanical could alter the first spot. Wasn't Pogacar without team support at that point?
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

jesper2913
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:15 pm

by jesper2913

tymon_tm wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:46 pm
and while wer'e still at Liege; during tv broadcast, when MVDPs group seemed to be doomed, there was this lenghty few-minute commercial break, and after i got back live suddenly both groups were back together. I wasn't thinking much of it, but this piece sheds some light on the matter. and it's not a kind gleam for race judges, who apparently once again gave every reason to throw empty bidons at them...

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/roa ... -for-free/
I understand that race organizers have to make decisions in splitseconds while the race unfolds, and that can't be easy.

On the other hand I don't like races being decided by chance. What I and (probably) everyone else would like to see, is having the strongest riders fight it out between them under optimal circumstances for all of them. I would like to see a fair head to head fight between the stongest, and I would like to see the strongest of them all come out on top. But the thing is, cycling isn't always fair. In cycling there is a big element of chance. That's one of the beautiful things about cycling, but on the other hand I really hate it when it affects the outcome between the strongest riders.

On Eurosport the commentaters made a big deal out of Pog getting rid of his extra clothes very early and getting ready to race. VDP did that a little bit later in the race, and that caused him to get caught behind the crash, while the race was just getting serious, and while Pog was at the front not getting affected by the crash, opening a gap of 40 seconds between the two riders. That is the element of chance. And at one point the gap had grown to 1:30, and it didn't look like they were closing. So at that point the race seemed over for the VDP group.

I'm not saying organizers should not have let the teamcars come through. But if they hadn't, VDP would probably have been out of the race before it really started. And many other big names were caught out in that group as well.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

I agree entirely; my only complaint is timing - after all chasing group was ...erm.. chasing for like 40 minutes or so, and the gap was pretty much steady as i recall it. it's not like they got really close and judges decided "oh well"

if judges allowed groups to come back together right after the crash, which made a lot more sense given we were a 100km before the finish and nothing was going on, we wouldn't have a problem at all. and furthermore - perhaps few riders/teams more in contention during decisive moments.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

by Weenie


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jesper2913
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by jesper2913

I agree. A quick decision to bring it back together and the race would have been intact with 90-95 km to go, and everyone would have been equally fresh/tired when entering the finale.

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