2024 Pro thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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Karvalo
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by Karvalo

BenSiskri wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:25 pm
Road cycling isn't going to progress whilst ASO/ Le Tour holds all the power......The season lasts from January to Oct/Nov......not 3 weeks in July. No successful sport runs like that.......
How many people just watched the Superbowl who don't tune into a single other live game all season?

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Lina
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by Lina

ave wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 11:35 pm
What is a successful sport? American football? That's a totally closed club. But good business.
No, the NFL (the ASO of american football) is good business. Everyone watches the SB, even if they don't watch american football otherwise. How many of even devout NFL fans watch or watched XFL, USFL, TSL, FXFL, IFL or UFL. Have you even heard of half of those leagues? How about american football played in Mexico or Europe? Yeah it's a thing but hardly anyone watches it.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Lina wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:07 am
ave wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 11:35 pm
What is a successful sport? American football? That's a totally closed club. But good business.
No, the NFL (the ASO of american football) is good business. Everyone watches the SB, even if they don't watch american football otherwise. How many of even devout NFL fans watch or watched XFL, USFL, TSL, FXFL, IFL or UFL. Have you even heard of half of those leagues? How about american football played in Mexico or Europe? Yeah it's a thing but hardly anyone watches it.
Lina, I though you were a true football fan? No true fan would have left out the LFL - the most important of all football leagues. Check it out:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lingeri ... Phimo,st:0

Only in America (although some Italian game shows are working the same vibe).
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Lina
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by Lina

Mr.Gib wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:26 am
Lina wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:07 am
ave wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 11:35 pm
What is a successful sport? American football? That's a totally closed club. But good business.
No, the NFL (the ASO of american football) is good business. Everyone watches the SB, even if they don't watch american football otherwise. How many of even devout NFL fans watch or watched XFL, USFL, TSL, FXFL, IFL or UFL. Have you even heard of half of those leagues? How about american football played in Mexico or Europe? Yeah it's a thing but hardly anyone watches it.
Lina, I though you were a true football fan? No true fan would have left out the LFL - the most important of all football leagues. Check it out:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lingeri ... Phimo,st:0

Only in America (although some Italian game shows are working the same vibe).
I blame my tiredness for such an obvious snub.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

what's the point in comparing incomparable? cycling's like hardly any pro sport. why? most disciplines are about pure competition - it doesn't matter where the giant slalom takes place or WTA championships are held. in team sports it's all about team A vs. team B. show me another discipline where it's the actual scene that makes for at least half ot the *entertainment*? sailing maybe? golf to a lot smaller extent?

iconic racing needs iconic routes. there's no substitute for Paris Roubaix although one might organize a lot of races on pave, why not. each and every euro country has an abundance of those. would you watch it though? and even if, would you care as much as for P-R? because i'm sure as hell most people wouldn't. names alone don't make for much. example - currently held races. Remco won this, WVA punctured there, but for "Toor The France" crowd it didn't even happen. and for more interested fans it's only a warm up before main courses.

a huge part of pro cycling is tradition - each and every generation races over nearly same routes. fans from all over the world fly to ride their fav. segments or follow whole races in caravans. as for creating new races, let's bare in mind one thing - cycling's euro-centric. and euro calendar is just fully packed. maybe some race in the autumn or now in the winter could pop up, but there's just no room in calendar for any 2nd series. who'd race it? few teams who'd go for money? and what money - form sheiks or from tv coverage, cause i'm sure more would tune in for a classic race even without few of the biggest names, than for some "champions league" event made just to see Pog v. MVDP v. whoever. oh, BTW we have those races already - they're called post Tour crits...

that of course doens't mean cycling can't grow in numbers (and if someone says it doesn't or hasn't, he must've tuned in just now because the sport has grown tremendously over last 3 decades) but i'd say this growth should happen outside europe. US or Australia do need their own racing series, own teams, own stars who'd take away a bit of this euro-centricism and introduce something new. arguably, as of now, States are the only place where it can happen, should happen, and it could act as a sort of competition for euro races. not so long ago people said there's no place for football (soccer) in US - look where's the MLS now (and all it took was just one blondie with means, connections and sheer will). US have the cycling tradition and have some prominent names who could do for domestic racing what Beckham's done for MLS. I'd wager if there's any racing to be made 'out of scratch' outside the main UCI calendar, it's on the north american continent, not in Flanders or south of France, running along the already established races.
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LouisN
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by LouisN

I wonder if UCI would dare to bump a century + old monument on the calendar for a few $M from a new wealthy organisation...it happened a few years ago but at a lesser level. A race organiser in China "invited" all the big (women) teams free of charge for an event. That year a few regular races had their dates moved elsewhere in the calendar.
Louis :)

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spokenwords
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by spokenwords

This conversation seems to happen every 5 years or so. Its boring and never seems to go anywhere. I almost think the only desire is to create pressure on the ASO and remind them to share the wealth with the teams. With the threat of starting a league and actually, possibly, maybe, having the money to do it just means ASO has to sit down at the table again. It never seems to go anywhere. I question if the money is even there.
In real news, Lenny Martinez pulled out a win, from a loss. WVA showed some fitness but still looks heavy to me. Remco seems good but all the pressure will be in the TT, where he wont want to finish below 1st, with those champ stripes on.
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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

spokenwords wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:55 pm
WVA showed some fitness but still looks heavy to me.
He got dropped before a fews guys you'd expect him to match or beat in that situation. Maybe he looks a bit heavy, but even so I think the performance yesterday is a negative sign. If his numbers are at their best, a bit of extra weight won't matter at Paris Roubaix. And he's skipping Strada Bianche and MSR. Those are long hard races you'd think would be ideal for training purposes even if he wasn't primed for the win. Hmmm.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

spokenwords wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:55 pm
I question if the money is even there.
yes it's there. at least for now; saudi's won't live off oil forever, and they know it well - that's why they try to invest in whatever they possibly can (and in this case, just feel like they want to)

of course most of their investments are done quietly under "investemnt funds" registered in some nice places. just like russian money or any other shady states'/entities'. the difference here is, cycling is not only a good growing businness, but also a great PR machine. two birds, one stone kind of move.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/long ... rtswashing

"Given the lack of criticism and the reliance of professional cycling teams on sponsors for funding, relationships between the sport and states with questionable human rights records are likely to deepen."
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

tymon_tm wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:18 pm
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/long ... rtswashing

"Given the lack of criticism and the reliance of professional cycling teams on sponsors for funding, relationships between the sport and states with questionable human rights records are likely to deepen."
They may spend their money, but I seriously doubt the practice will do anything to redeem human rights violations. Perhaps the simple minded or ignorant will distracted by some sports sponsorship, but those are not the constituents that matter in a geopolitical context. What is potentially more problematic is that once entrenched in a sport, would a dictator of a sponsoring country have the ability to corrupt the sport? Perhaps a few are going to forget that they treat 50% of their population like property, but a more realistic concern might be whether they will be able to influence the sport in a negative direction?

I can’t articulate the full relevance of the analogy, but Russia’s conduct in international competition, particularly the Olympics, is an example of what can happen when dictators get involved in international competition. How many scientists and sports officials did Putin have killed to cover up the Olympic doping scandal? Quite a few. Would a journalist who uncovers a scandal in a dictatorship sponsored pro team fear the dictator will have them killed to keep things quiet?

The question then becomes would you rather the money not be spent by these countries on cycling? If you are a bike racer or run a pro team, I think I know the answer. Everybody else? :noidea:
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Flasher
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by Flasher

Mr.Gib wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:48 am
I can’t articulate the full relevance of the analogy, but Russia’s conduct in international competition, particularly the Olympics, is an example of what can happen when dictators get involved in international competition. How many scientists and sports officials did Putin have killed to cover up the Olympic doping scandal? Quite a few. Would a journalist who uncovers a scandal in a dictatorship sponsored pro team fear the dictator will have them killed to keep things quiet?

The question then becomes would you rather the money not be spent by these countries on cycling? If you are a bike racer or run a pro team, I think I know the answer. Everybody else? :noidea:
Historically cycle teams haven't exactly been whiter than white now have they?

Obviously less of an issue if the countries involved are only paying to have races in their country so long as the racing's good and exciting it doesn't matter so much who wins.

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Stendhal
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by Stendhal

In other news, did you read what Patrick Lefevre said about Julien Alaphalippe? I've defending Don Patrick for years but even for me he's gone too far. Blaming Marion Rousse for Alaphalippe's performance and alleged partying is a tired trope and outright despicable. Rousse has more class in her left pinky finger than Lefevre has in his entire body, and already has sharply and accurately rebuked him.
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CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

This morning's mountain top finish in Dubai was fairly exciting.... at least more so than I was expecting. AG2R attack looked good.

Lina
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by Lina

Is Lefevre out of line? Yes. Does literally the entire peloton know that if you sign a big contract with him and then don't perform you're getting rinsed in the media? Yes. No one forced Alaphilippe to take his money, he could've found another team but was lured in by the money. Now that he hasn't performed according to expectations he gets rinsed in media. Every single person that has followed any professional cycling in the last couple decades knows that this happens to all Lefevre's high profile riders that fail to perform. It's not a surprise to anyone.

And I'm not sure homewrecking Rousse has much legs to stand on in the class department. Though the bar isn't high when you're comparing to Lefevre.

by Weenie


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