2023 Pro thread

[tymon_tm]

afaik Cancellara himself was making hints about going for GTs one day. WVA is much more versatile rider already, he might actually pull it off

[Dan Gerous]

There was the same talks about Sagan when he was in his prime.

In Wout's case, I think switching focus to GC in Grand Tours is not even a consideration for him, at least as long as he has not won De Ronde and Roubaix at least once each, I doubt he would ditch these objectives to 'maybe' become okay going for GC in Grand Tours, as formidable an athlete as he is, even with a change of focus and losing lots of weight, I'm not so sure he could compete against Pogacar, Remco, his teammates... I could understand wanting to go for new objectives and risk it to have a crack at Grand Tours, but not before he checks the boxes of his current to-do list.

[AJS914]

Back in the old days, they could get a TUE for cortisone and shed the weight. Now, it would be much harder. I don't think Wiggins or Armstrong could have leaned out so much without the drugs.

[LouisN]

I definitely hope Wout keeps doing " 2022Wout stuff " at the TDF. Last year was a 3 week entertaining spectacle mostly because of his contribution as a key teammate (for GC) and stage hunter, as well as green jersey favorite.

Louis

[Aeo]

Back in the old days, they could get a TUE for cortisone and shed the weight. Now, it would be much harder. I don't think Wiggins or Armstrong could have leaned out so much without the drugs.

Just get a knee injury at the perfect time

[Tifosiphil]

I could see him maybe testing himself in the one week races over the coming years to see how he goes. I can see him struggling with the demands of the Grand Tours (as a leader) but something like Romandie could be a good target

[sfo423]

Cortisone is baby food; pro's got a TUE for Tramadol. Pain killer and weight loss! Just ask Froome, Wiggo, etc, etc, etc........

Back in the old days, they could get a TUE for cortisone and shed the weight. Now, it would be much harder. I don't think Wiggins or Armstrong could have leaned out so much without the drugs.

[zirxo]

You don't need a TUE for Tramadol, it's not a banned substance. Just not allowed during races.

[Dan Gerous]

You don't need a TUE for Tramadol, it's not a banned substance. Just not allowed during races.

Just don't get caught using it in one of ASO's race if you don't want to get blacklisted from the sport...

[ms6073]

I don't think Wiggins or Armstrong could have leaned out so much without the drugs.

Not that I would ever defend LA, but wasn't the bulk of his weight loss/physiological transformation the from the ravages of chemotherapy to battle cancer?

[Mr.Gib]

I don't think Wiggins or Armstrong could have leaned out so much without the drugs.

Not that I would ever defend LA, but wasn't the bulk of his weight loss/physiological transformation the from the ravages of chemotherapy to battle cancer?

Nope, just a convenient excuse. The only mass he due to cancer was a couple of dead tumors in his head and one nut. LA was always deceptive about his weight, typically understating it to explain unnatural climbing performance.

[tymon_tm]

not here to defend anyone either, but it's easy to assume what you've just said, since you gotta be proficient in the field of what cancer and the whole treatment does to a human body, no?

even with all that dope you gotta have a minimum respect for a man who's able to become THE cyclist of his era. that's something even his most hateful acts shouldn't diminish. and frankly speaking, in a world battered with cancer, that's the ultimate survivor story one can hope for*

*as long as someone respected in the field, with skills, knowledge and data deosn't say otherwise

[Mr.Gib]

I have a couple of friends who almost died from cancer in their twenties. Both elite level cyclists before and after. One lady in particular had a really rough go, lots of surgery. Survived and no difference in her body type, weight, power. I have a close relation who is a pioneer in advanced oncology. I will ask him about long term metabolic changes and report back.

And indeed tons of respect for LA on the bike, great achievement coming back from near dead. Loved watching him win - massively entertaining. Granted, I was never under any illusions. I do miss the old doping thread though. Fascinating to see posts insisting LA was clean. Fun days. There are people out there with Lance Armstrong tatoos. Talk about something that does not age well.

[Mr.Gib]

not here to defend anyone either, but it's easy to assume what you've just said, since you gotta be proficient in the field of what cancer and the whole treatment does to a human body, no?

I have a close relation who is a pioneer in advanced oncology. I will ask him about long term metabolic changes and report back.

Just checked. The basic answer is that "survivors of cancer generally return to baseline". The more complicated answer is that it
'depends on the specifics of the type of cancer and the type of treatment. The concensus remains that while a return to baseline is likely, "the toll taken by the disease itself and the effects of treatment, can lead to diminished physical capabilities, with loss of muscle mass a contributing factor".

The source is a pioneer in bone marrow transplantation with 250 cancer related publication credits. No follow up research on elite athletes however, so there could be more. Regardless, contrary to LA's bullshit, getting cancer is no way to become a grand tour contender.

[Karvalo]

Just checked. The basic answer is that "survivors of cancer generally return to baseline". The more complicated answer is that it
'depends on the specifics of the type of cancer and the type of treatment. The concensus remains that while a return to baseline is likely, "the toll taken by the disease itself and the effects of treatment, can lead to diminished physical capabilities, with loss of muscle mass a contributing factor".

The source is a pioneer in bone marrow transplantation with 250 cancer related publication credits. No follow up research on elite athletes however, so there could be more. Regardless, contrary to LA's bullshit, getting cancer is no way to become a grand tour contender.

If I remember rightly (and I could be making this up) is that in his early comeback when he did have less muscle mass than before, either through effects of illness, treatment or just time off training, that was when Ferrari first tried the low gear / super high cadence technique to compensate for having less leg strength.

They then found that it worked really well for Lance due to his oxygen carrying abilities, and that it was the perfect complement to an EPO regime as well. So it wasn't that he had a long term loss of mass due to cancer, but that trying to work around his short term loss of mass/muscle helped them find the magic formula for unmatched doping success.