RIM BRAKE FRAMES = OBSOLETE!

[de zwarten]

The 2019 Madone SLR had proprietary rim brakes, and the previous generation didn't do well at what they were designed to (braking). So ofcourse those bikes weren't going to conquer the market, even though the braking of the 2019 model was OK.

[TobinHatesYou]

The 2019 Madone SLR had proprietary rim brakes, and the previous generation didn't do well at what they were designed to (braking). So ofcourse those bikes weren't going to conquer the market, even though the braking of the 2019 model was OK.

It didn't need to conquer the market. It needed to sell in quantities that justified its existence. Aka more than a few hundred globally in that first year of availability.

I just checked, you can still order the frameset (along with rim-brake 2018 Emonda SLR H1 and H2 framesets.) They must be sitting on mountains of them.

[C36]

As much as I would like to had rim brake offer, cause I still believe the frames ride better. The supply chain / stock management constraint drove the decision: can not multiply by 2 the stocks to cover both systems especially now that sales are so imbalanced.

The very only, slight, tinny chance to see rim brakes frame being offered as a niche product would be if the UCI removed all weight limits (like it had been considered after the last olympics). But few years ago the brands “pressured” against to have a reasonable return on their disc brake investments.

[jasjas]

The current Emonda is not offered with rim brakes. Only the 2017 era one…and only as a frameset. The O2 is similarly old and highly doubt the next O2 will have a rim-brake option.

If you want to rim brakes, your practical options in the near future are going to be Campy, low-end, NOS or these upcoming Chinese brands.

but we can't argue that the sales trends are going to be continually downward,

Yes I was answering previous poster who said
"the only outlier seems to be Giant, still do top end rim frames and bikes, i didn't think they would for 2023. "

Available is available & yes newer years may have now been disc only with some brands so of course those years were not available rim version but that is not a dead end as some do not want those period but as I also said market will decide & nothing is set in stone.

Markets dictate period
Companies went all in & surprise or not this year will see many big boys nearly or completely going under. I am not saying it is the fault of disc but it is partially the fault of misreading the market

Perhaps your crystal ball/future sales trends says otherwise but me I dunno & I stand by my ...lets see next year at this time what is "actually" happening.

...and i stand by it, show me any high end currently available rim frame/complete hi end bike from any major or even 2nd string bike manufacturer? Only LOOK do the rs785 but thats just using up old stock and how old is the 785 now? no new paint schemes for 3 years (rim)

As much as i would love to see a DA9300 rim mechanical groupset or even a Ultegra version, it ain't going to happen.

Bike manufacturers/importers are in trouble because they were very greedy during the pandemic, i mean £13 or 14k for a bloody bicycle made in a factory in Taiwan? when a similar bike 3 years earlier was half that.

They pissed off their market and forced people who would normally change bikes to hold tight and by charging 4, 5 or even 6k for their cheaper options, they made new comers to the sport, look elsewhere.

[flying]

Bike manufacturers/importers are in trouble because they were very greedy during the pandemic, i mean £13 or 14k for a bloody bicycle made in a factory in Taiwan? when a similar bike 3 years earlier was half that.

They pissed off their market

^^Agreed^^

But they did more than piss off the market they opened wide the doors

Other as yet not popular/known saw the opportunity/demand & are working their way in now

[TobinHatesYou]

It is definitely interesting to see what the actual costs are at every stage of the supply chain.

Dealer pricing somewhere on a complete bike is typically between 50-60% of MSRP.
Dealer pricing on Shimano and SRAM drivetrain components is typically 55-65%
Dealer pricing on a frameset can be <30%!

A premium frameset from an Asian factory is between $300-500 in materials/labor when a large brand orders them in large quantities. An Allez frameset almost certainly costs <$100.

[C36]

A premium frameset from an Asian factory is between $300-500 in materials/labor when a large brand orders them in large quantities. An Allez frameset almost certainly costs <$100.

If I recall properly, when I got my Supersix warranty frame, the import documents were left inside the box and the frame was imported for 750 or 780$, that was jan 2020

[wheelsONfire]

A premium frameset from an Asian factory is between $300-500 in materials/labor when a large brand orders them in large quantities. An Allez frameset almost certainly costs <$100.

If I recall properly, when I got my Supersix warranty frame, the import documents were left inside the box and the frame was imported for 750 or 780$, that was jan 2020

It's still very cheap as it's painted to. Heck, if i sand my frame and leave it to be painted here, no logos nothing but one color. It's 700 USD.

[JessieJim]

now I'm thinking about changing the brake frames...

[AW84]

The current Emonda is not offered with rim brakes. Only the 2017 era one…and only as a frameset. The O2 is similarly old and highly doubt the next O2 will have a rim-brake option.

If you want to rim brakes, your practical options in the near future are going to be Campy, low-end, NOS or these upcoming Chinese brands.

but we can't argue that the sales trends are going to be continually downward,

Yes I was answering previous poster who said
"the only outlier seems to be Giant, still do top end rim frames and bikes, i didn't think they would for 2023. "

Available is available & yes newer years may have now been disc only with some brands so of course those years were not available rim version but that is not a dead end as some do not want those period but as I also said market will decide & nothing is set in stone.

Markets dictate period
Companies went all in & surprise or not this year will see many big boys nearly or completely going under. I am not saying it is the fault of disc but it is partially the fault of misreading the market

Perhaps your crystal ball/future sales trends says otherwise but me I dunno & I stand by my ...lets see next year at this time what is "actually" happening.

...and i stand by it, show me any high end currently available rim frame/complete hi end bike from any major or even 2nd string bike manufacturer? Only LOOK do the rs785 but thats just using up old stock and how old is the 785 now? no new paint schemes for 3 years (rim)

As much as i would love to see a DA9300 rim mechanical groupset or even a Ultegra version, it ain't going to happen.

Bike manufacturers/importers are in trouble because they were very greedy during the pandemic, i mean £13 or 14k for a bloody bicycle made in a factory in Taiwan? when a similar bike 3 years earlier was half that.

They pissed off their market and forced people who would normally change bikes to hold tight and by charging 4, 5 or even 6k for their cheaper options, they made new comers to the sport, look elsewhere.

The fact that new bikes are so outrageously priced should, in theory, make the case for continued interest in rim brake groupset and wheel releases. In theory. There are literally millions, probably tens of millions, of rim brake bikes out there, and for 20-25% of the cost of a new disc brake bike, one can update what they have. But because the industry is colluding to force us onto new bikes, and holds all the cards, we're pretty well at their mercy. I hope the chickens come home to roost one day and the industry tanks for raising prices exponentially and providing almost no alternative, it's the only way they will learn.

[TobinHatesYou]

So do you think Trek intentionally developed the 2019 rim-brake Madone SLR and intentionally flopped it just to say "See, see!?" Or the 2018 Emonda SLR before it because that didn't sell all that well either.

[elSid]

I can't support this with data, but I am confident that in 2019, there were more options for high end bikes built for rim brakes*.

There could be multiple reasons - unrelated to braking modality - behind the 2018 and 2019 Treks not sellling well.


*I'd be happy to be corrected: I am in the market for a new rim braked frameset. The (non-custom) higher end options I've found so far are ...limited and/or uninspiring.

[TobinHatesYou]

I can't support this with data, but I am confident that in 2019, there were more options for high end bikes built for rim brakes*.

There could be multiple reasons - unrelated to braking modality - behind the 2018 and 2019 Treks not sellling well.

The disc-brake versions sold quite well.

[tymon_tm]

I can't support this with data, but I am confident that in 2019, there were more options for high end bikes built for rim brakes*.

There could be multiple reasons - unrelated to braking modality - behind the 2018 and 2019 Treks not sellling well.


*I'd be happy to be corrected: I am in the market for a new rim braked frameset. The (non-custom) higher end options I've found so far are ...limited and/or uninspiring.

when Trek introduced SLR, all brands were already pushing discs so hard, just a handful of pros were still on rim brakes. so it's only natural most customers were after what's on the TV screen, and LBS's were pushing that angle as well, simply cause it ment a) more profit selling more expensive bikes b) a great selling point for people on rim brakes, who wouldn't even think about a new ride

IMHO rim brake Madone SLR is the greatest bike ever, period. and yes, it does brake very well, in case someone wonders. I haven't noticed any downgrade from DA brakes, but then I use brakes so seldom, it's always the last bit i think of when putting a new bike together...

[TobinHatesYou]

All a rim-brake bike needs to do is sell in enough quantity to justify its continued existence. It doesn’t need to keep pace with the disc-brake version of the bike…that would of course be impossible.

I bet Trek sold fewer than 1000 rim-brake Madones worldwide between 2018-2019.