2023 Pro thread

[MilesG813]

What is aas?

Anabolic androgenic steroids

[Stendhal]

[/quote]
But the biggest risk factors are AAS and EPO, and, it's postulated, more so in a cocktail together. Both cause endofibrosis.
[/quote]

Yikes, that's a scary cocktail!

[LouisN]

But the biggest risk factors are AAS and EPO, and, it's postulated, more so in a cocktail together. Both cause endofibrosis.

Louis

[LOWIEV]

Arnaud De Lie, remember the name.
3 races 2 wins this year. 20 years old.
Tom Boonen says he is a mix of himself and Phil Gilbert.
This kid is going places!

[RDY]

But the biggest risk factors are AAS and EPO, and, it's postulated, more so in a cocktail together. Both cause endofibrosis.

Louis

You can pretend all you want, as can the sports media - who claimed for years that it was a mystery why such vast numbers of athletes were getting mononucleosis (again EPO - and blood doping). But they cause a multitude of vascular irregularities including endofibrosis, and are and were very prevalent in professional cycling.

[basilic]

the biggest risk factors are AAS and EPO, and, it's postulated, more so in a cocktail together. Both cause endofibrosis.

Would you give us a source for this statement?
I didn't find any of this in a quick search on Pubmed. Cycling on the other hand... most people with this problem are cyclists, or triathletes. An occasional runner or soccer player.

[RDY]

the biggest risk factors are AAS and EPO, and, it's postulated, more so in a cocktail together. Both cause endofibrosis.

Would you give us a source for this statement?
I didn't find any of this in a quick search on Pubmed. Cycling on the other hand... most people with this problem are cyclists, or triathletes. An occasional runner or soccer player.

Just use google.

[basilic]

right, google, I'm sure it'll link your own statement above...

if you run this search on Pubmed.gov ("anabolic androgenic steroids" OR erythropoietin) AND "iliac artery endofibrosis"
you get "no results were found". But there might be unpublished results, that's why I asked you.

[jever98]

right, google, I'm sure it'll link your own statement above...

if you run this search on Pubmed.gov ("anabolic androgenic steroids" OR erythropoietin) AND "iliac artery endofibrosis"
you get "no results were found". But there might be unpublished results, that's why I asked you.

I came across this: https://econtent.hogrefe.com/doi/10.102 ... 26/a000909

[basilic]

Hey, thanks jever98.
I quote the relevant paragraph from the article:
Unfortunately, within a professional and high-performance sports framework the question about possible association of endofibrosis and abuse of illicit performance-enhancing drugs is apparent. Although, there is a lack of randomized-controlled evidence-based information concerning vascular effects of doping, many theories remain hypothetical. Nevertheless, the authors of this review consider the topic of doping to be important in this context. As a matter of fact, anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) have multiple effects on the cardiovascular system [22]. Therefore, elevated erythropoiesis due to supraphysiologic testosterone application may lead to augmented blood viscosity [23]. In combination with steroid-induced psoas muscle hypertrophy shear stress to the iliac artery vessel wall might be accentuated. Appropriately, Khaira et al. documented a case of external iliac endofibrosis in a bodybuilder who ingested androgenic anabolic steroids [24]. Furthermore, assuming exercise induced microtrauma to the vasculature, also systemic effects of the erythropoiesis inducing peptide-hormone erythropoietin (EPO) are debatable. Particularly, external iliac artery endofibrosis predominantly affects high-performance cyclists. Therefore, Reddy et al. reported induction of excessive neointima formation in injured carotid arteries of rats after intraperitoneal administration of EPO (5,000 IE/kg) [25]. Also in mice, EPO seems to accelerate smooth muscle cell-rich neointima formation [26]. Finally, the combination of EPO and AAS may promote the development of iliac artery endofibrosis.

So the cited studies:
22 is a general review of steroids and the CV system
23 is about blood viscosity, which hasn't much to do woth the structure of the vessels
24 is a case-report, 1 person taking anabolic steroids
25 and 26 are rat studies of response to an experimental vascular injury while on EPO

So it looks like people are interested in these topics, but we're not quite there yet

[Aeo]

Epstein-Barr virus is another one of the blood doping illnesses

[LouisN]

I suggest some of you guys interested by such (otherwise very interesting) discussions open a "I found this on the internet and therefore..." thread.

Louis

[tarmackev]

Interesting post from basilic

[skinnybex]

Arnaud De Lie is going to win a Monument before he turns 22, this kid is the real deal and his size, power and instincts are Impressive to say the least.

[Mr.Gib]

the biggest risk factors are AAS and EPO, and, it's postulated, more so in a cocktail together. Both cause endofibrosis.

Would you give us a source for this statement?
I didn't find any of this in a quick search on Pubmed. Cycling on the other hand... most people with this problem are cyclists, or triathletes. An occasional runner or soccer player.

I also was unaware of suggest link with PED's. But I'll throw in a data point and hey, it will be on the internet. I have Illiac Artery Endofibrosis and I have never knowingly ( ) taken performance enhancing drugs. It's damn nuisance if you want to hold high power. After about 10 - 15 minutes at 300 - 350 watts the left leg starts to scream. I can keep pushing but it doesn't feel great. If I give it a few minutes rest I can go again. But if I overdo it, I risk some serious muscle spasms. One spasm resulted in a quadracep rupture . Top end sprint power seems unaffected. And I can ride all day at more moderate effort which is mostly what I want from the sport. Left quad is 6 cm smaller than right. Too damn old to make the surgery worthwhile.