Is anyone completely done with these absurd prices?

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jasjas
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:15 am

by jasjas

The problem with these very high prices is new entrants, especially youngsters.

I can't believe a sl7 with Ultegra is north of £7k, with no mechanical to bring prices down, i just wonder where the next generations will come from.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

jasjas wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:48 pm
The problem with these very high prices is new entrants, especially youngsters.

I can't believe a sl7 with Ultegra is north of £7k, with no mechanical to bring prices down, i just wonder where the next generations will come from.
Itll only get worse.. as "innovations" continue, older stuff will get dropped, perfectly working groupsets become obsolete due to technology (rim brake to disc brake) wasnt a matter of a new frameset and transfer your group over, it was a start all over again... yeah you don't HAVE to keep up, but when you do it sure adds up fast!

by Weenie


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AW84
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:04 am

by AW84

Both the manufacturer and the consumer are to blame here. You can only charge what consumers are willing to pay, and consumers are, now more than ever, signaling that they want and can afford more expensive bicycles. Just look at this forum...seems everyone's grabbing for the hot new bike every year. But manufacturers pushing new "advances" with little real-world evidence to merit their cost on gullible consumers has really driven up prices. The problem is the latter, combined with the former, is making cycling a less attainable hobby for the average person every day. My guess is manufacturers have figured out they can be more profitable with higher-margin mid-to-top tier bikes, and they're working toward leaving the entry level to the used market. Same goes for kits and components...keep paying their quickly-rising prices, there's no reason to adjust the price.

Ypuh
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:20 pm
Location: The Netherlands

by Ypuh

WeightWeenies is a horrible representation for the cycling community though. It might be different across the pond compared to The Netherlands. We learn to bike before we learn to walk. There's an abundance of top quality second hand bikes, so you can start cycling with a budget from anywhere between €400 and €4.000+.

Enthousiasts like me buy our new bikes every 3-5 years or so from the top-end, but that also mean another 3-5 year old previous gen top-end bike ends up on the second hand market, which probably puts another beginner's bike on the market as well.

The ecosystem works, but indeed bikes have bmore expensive in the past 2-3 years. That mainly occured at the entry level; where cheap €400 quality beginner bikes were priced up to €1.000 second hand. Also it occured on the top-end where a Dura Ace kitted bike went from €6k to €11k. The last category has faired a lot better though and it are mainly forums like WeightWeenies where protests appear, but appearantly the stuff is still being bought.

New out of the box at a dealer with no discounts is now priced out of my range, but to be fair I never was interested in that anyway. I'd rather collect (new or nearly new) individual parts and built it up over time at a heavy discount. The only thing bothering me is that framesets are very much disencouraged by nearly all big brands, carrying the similar prices as a fully kitted bike.
Cervelo S3 - 7.29kg

niklasp
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:36 pm

by niklasp

Well... Its quite a recession now. Look at all the sales across the EU. More expensive and not boutique brand like Scott and Specialized is always on stock and often on sale, though the big S and S dont like the word "sale". Boutique price for a standard bike is no more I think. At 30% off the bikes seems to go from the stores.

Remember this: The brands always get "full price" say its 6-7k euro for a sl7 s-works, then the rest is up to your local store how much percent off you can get (and the rest need to cover other expenses like salary, store and stuff)... The thing is "the brand always get full price" but now if the store needs to put bikes on sale not to get "a year old inventory" and maybe doesnt earn a nickel on it... Do you think the store will buy many new bikes for the next year? Nope. Maybe theyll keep the "old" model instead.

This bike market is sick. "You need to hurry if you want to buy this limited sl7 frameset, theyre limited" well all bikes on the planet is made in "limited" number and when its a unspecified number its just a sales thing.


Cannondale is doing "carry over" models so its the same colour and specification for several years... Not to lower price to end consumer... Just to earn more money.

AW84
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:04 am

by AW84

Ypuh wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:11 am
WeightWeenies is a horrible representation for the cycling community though. It might be different across the pond compared to The Netherlands. We learn to bike before we learn to walk. There's an abundance of top quality second hand bikes, so you can start cycling with a budget from anywhere between €400 and €4.000+.

Enthousiasts like me buy our new bikes every 3-5 years or so from the top-end, but that also mean another 3-5 year old previous gen top-end bike ends up on the second hand market, which probably puts another beginner's bike on the market as well.

The ecosystem works, but indeed bikes have bmore expensive in the past 2-3 years. That mainly occured at the entry level; where cheap €400 quality beginner bikes were priced up to €1.000 second hand. Also it occured on the top-end where a Dura Ace kitted bike went from €6k to €11k. The last category has faired a lot better though and it are mainly forums like WeightWeenies where protests appear, but appearantly the stuff is still being bought.

New out of the box at a dealer with no discounts is now priced out of my range, but to be fair I never was interested in that anyway. I'd rather collect (new or nearly new) individual parts and built it up over time at a heavy discount. The only thing bothering me is that framesets are very much disencouraged by nearly all big brands, carrying the similar prices as a fully kitted bike.
It might vary brand to brand, but the entry level seems to have taken the smallest hit, although you now get a heavier bike with potentially a tier lower groupset for your money than you did 4-6 years ago. I ride Specialized bikes, so I'll use them as the example, but when I last bought a new Tarmac (2018), the S-Works was $10,000, and now it's $14,000. The Expert was around $4,500, now it's $8,300. The Pro went from $6,000 to $9,000. Those are some big jumps. But people keep paying it. Hell, we have some new riders locally, guys still in or fresh out of college in their 20's, who got into cycling and their very first bike is Force AXS or 8100-equipped that they dropped 8 or 9 grand on right out of the gate. When I got into this a decade ago, everybody had CAAD10's or SuperSixes or Madone's with mechanical Ultegra they dropped barely $1500-3000 on. That's a much faster rise in spending than inflation. I ride 8050 and rim-brake with nice wheels, and to buy a comparable new bike today (which weighs more and is harder to work on) is at least 9-grand...just ain't gonna' happen.

romanmoser
Posts: 561
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm

by romanmoser

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:16 pm
mrlobber wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:09 pm

Looked at Ascent, seem to be a quite recent company founded by enthusiasts. Curious, what makes it already being established above Chinese brands in your opinion?
It’s not that they’re established, but they do their own CFD, tunnel tested the wheels with various tires, and sent prototypes out to testers. They also tested competitors’ wheels in the same wind tunnel to help establish a baseline for that particular wind tunnel. They aren’t just the consumer facing side of a factory/OEM. The founder is very engaging and communicates directly with customers.

Full disclosure, one of my teammates has been riding prototypes for over a year.

There’s a 42mm deep version coming out soon. Since it’s shallower, it will also be slightly narrower at 23mm internal and 32.5mm external. Should be ~1300g with DT 180s.
DO they own their molds and rim profiles ?
Hambini wasn't impressed by them

I mean light bicycle has a great warranty, and they are open to discussions when crash occure

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Snabb
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:43 am
Location: Sweden

by Snabb

Frustrated, will never buy a specialized again. Orbea still 2 000 euros cheaper for a similar model. Or go for Canyon instead.
Ride lots!

Belisarius
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:36 pm

by Belisarius

misteryellow wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:54 pm
Like the title says. I know supply chain issues have ramped up the price of goods but the prices of bikes and other cycling goods is seriously getting out of control. Anyone else frustrated?
Lets jsut say that apremium frame made in Taiwan costs 500$ max , at times with paint. Groupsets?30% of askign price... Rest is anti competitive gauging...

AJS914
Posts: 4994
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

AW84 wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:20 am
Both the manufacturer and the consumer are to blame here. You can only charge what consumers are willing to pay, and consumers are, now more than ever, signaling that they want and can afford more expensive bicycles. Just look at this forum...seems everyone's grabbing for the hot new bike every year.

The bicycle industry has finally figured out that rich people want exclusivity. A rich person will pay $17K+ for an S-Works Tarmac with that special Olympic, Sagan, or Worlds paint job. It is the way that rich people virtue signal their wealth. It's the same with buying the latest $1500 iphone pro, max, whatever with 1TB of storage and 5 cameras. It's not that those people really need those capabilities, it's what that phones says to the world when they whip it out. It's the same with wearing a stainless Rolex. Intrinsically, it should be a $1,000 mechanical watch but Rolex charges $10,000 with a limited production and people line up to buy them and they are all sold out.

Now, of course, farther than the food chain buy into the need of owning top of the line. If you make $100k per year and are single, you can probably find $15k to buy a new bike every 5 years if that is your thing. You can probably afford that Rolex too if you wanted.

These types of buyers always existed but I think they are just more visible now with the internet. Back when I was a starving student in my 20s, we had a few old geezers in the bike club that would fly to Italy every year to ride and they would almost always come back with a new Colnago.

RyanH
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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by RyanH

This forum's distinguishing characteristic is that it's a collection of some of the most expensive bikes in the world. It gives you a distorted view of what is popular and what people can afford.

The closest I've ever been to this forum in real life was Haute Route where all of the boutique brands we talk about were represented in full force. A $15k bike decked out with Lightweights, SRM PM9 and Darimo or schmolke or THM was common. Outside of that, even being in Los Angeles where top of the line bikes are common, I may see a bike at that level a few times a year at most.

Andrew69
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am
Location: ɹǝpunuʍop

by Andrew69

Snabb wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:32 am
Frustrated, will never buy a specialized again. Orbea still 2 000 euros cheaper for a similar model. Or go for Canyon instead.
I will never buy another Orbea as they refuse to honour their warranty, which obviously isnt worth the paper its written on.

I have one Canyon and will definitely consider another the next time I purchase

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tymon_tm
Posts: 3296
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

RyanH wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:25 am
This forum's distinguishing characteristic is that it's a collection of some of the most expensive bikes in the world. It gives you a distorted view of what is popular and what people can afford.

The closest I've ever been to this forum in real life was Haute Route where all of the boutique brands we talk about were represented in full force. A $15k bike decked out with Lightweights, SRM PM9 and Darimo or schmolke or THM was common. Outside of that, even being in Los Angeles where top of the line bikes are common, I may see a bike at that level a few times a year at most.
true, but on the other hand, I think more and more WWs shift from praising equipment to simply enjoying riding, and it shows in various comments. quite possibly it's the age thing, not necessarily economic; you just tend to appreciate simple things in life as you mature.

a new 10-15k bike for me? no thanks, I just don't see the point. what I do see is how tons of money is being burned, while often a fraction of it could really make a difference in real life. so I guess it's 2nd hand from now on (actually, it's been mostly that way..). it also brings some form of excitement, which orderding from a catalogue just doesn't seem to provide.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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LouisN
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

RyanH wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:25 am
This forum's distinguishing characteristic is that it's a collection of some of the most expensive bikes in the world. It gives you a distorted view of what is popular and what people can afford.

The closest I've ever been to this forum in real life was Haute Route where all of the boutique brands we talk about were represented in full force. A $15k bike decked out with Lightweights, SRM PM9 and Darimo or schmolke or THM was common. Outside of that, even being in Los Angeles where top of the line bikes are common, I may see a bike at that level a few times a year at most.
I did a gravel event last week, close to 1300 entries.
Probably half of the people there had $4000. + bikes, and a few hundred with "showroom" $10 000 + bikes.
To echo what tymon wrote, most of those bikes were ran by young adults (25-45).
And that is far out deep in the woods nooooorth east French part of CAnada :mrgreen: ...

Louis :)

flying
Posts: 2746
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

tymon_tm wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:18 pm

true, but on the other hand, I think more and more WWs shift from praising equipment to simply enjoying riding, and it shows in various comments. quite possibly it's the age thing, not necessarily economic; you just tend to appreciate simple things in life as you mature.
Exactly! :thumbup:
At the end of the day the beauty of cycling really is not about the bike.
Of course we don't ride Walmart specials but a great bike can still be built new or bought used for 2k

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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