2022 PRO Thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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jcrr
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:36 am
Location: PNW USA

by jcrr

Do any of the EU WWs have any intel on the Toon Aerts' saga?
"If it ain't broken, it could be lighter"

by Weenie


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Orbital
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Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:52 am
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by Orbital

UpFromOne wrote:
maquisard wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:37 am
Please can we drop this topic and return to talking about cycling...
OK...Why did Cav whore himself out with the usual LA suspects?
Maybe LA was kind to him years ago...so that justifies sullying his rep?
I regularly listen to The Move. Its not the first time he’s been on. I think it’s great for the NA audience because it’s presented in a way that you don’t have to be a hardcore cycling enthusiast to follow cycling. I understand a lot of people have strong opinions about LA. I don’t. If Cav’s career is negatively affected by being associated with LA I think that speaks more to how messed up cycling is. I mean, we just had a pages long discussion about assaulting 13y/o girls….

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Remco's second to last lap is the KOM for the segment at 29.4mph / 21.5min. Considering there's elevation and a ton of corners, that's absolutely ridiculous.

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robbosmans
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by robbosmans

jcrr wrote:Do any of the EU WWs have any intel on the Toon Aerts' saga?
Nope, nothing. The only news was that he got dropped from the team

Aeo
Posts: 463
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by Aeo

There is no comeback. In a different sport with a more naive/lax attitude towards doping, he can maybe explain it away by claiming it was his wife's medication. Even if it was from a contaminated supplement, he has strict liability and taking supplements that are not certified is his own fault
Giant TCR Adv Pro Disc '17 · BH Lynx Race Evo '19 · Seraph GR029 '21 · Canyon Inflite AL '14

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tymon_tm
Posts: 3296
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by tymon_tm

spud wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:27 pm
tymon_tm wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:01 pm
spud wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:53 pm
re team Quickstep, they have always won a lot of races. My impression is that to field a Tour winning squad, you have to invest a lot of money in people who don't win a lot of races ie really good climbers or TT riders but not the very best. When the climbing stages whittle down to 8-10 people, only the very best/deepest teams will have more than guy in it. Will Lefevere be able to handle spending big $ and not getting wins regularly?
GTs aren't won only in the highest mountains. take those windy rolling stages, where you can "easily" put a minute or two on your rivals provided you've got a proper horsepower at your disposal. arguably in most of these situations we've witnessed, it was impossible to make most of it, as big teams focus on climber-domestiques, and riders they have for pulling on flats, are nowhere near the names Remco can count on. IMHO QS can outgun others by a country mile if an opportunity presents itself.

also, remember how Sky used to burn some of the best riders on the planet for their leaders? if Kwiato at his prime could sacrifice himself, so can e.g. Alaphilippe. of course the question remains if it even makes sense for Remco to do the Tour so early. but if they chose to, QS already has more than a decent squad. where they lack in climbing, they make up in sheer strenght and experience, something money can't buy that easily.
I don't think Ineos/Sky EVER got bossed by Quickstep in the cross winds in a tour stage. To the extent it ever happened to Jumbo, it's because Roglic was sleeping in the bunch too far back. When you look at this year's tour, look at the two times Vingegaard took time out of Pogacar - once with Roglic one-timing him, and another when WVA drilled it so hard that Pogacar cracked. Evenpoel is really good, but I don't see him cracking those two guys in a climb. GC Teams need at least 2 really good climbers to support the leader since it's inevitable that one of them will have an off day at some point. Look at UAE, they've got 3 guys that, on their day, can stay with the leader late into a stage. Those guys don't win a ton of races, and I doubt they come cheap.
has QS ever had a reason to boss SKY that is the question. with a sure GC contender, and their best riders on the roster, it would be a completely different case.

Vin was ubeatable in highest mountains this year, partially thanks to WVA's extraordinary performance. next year brings new challenges and a new set of cards; has any rider been able to come to the Tour repeating his performance from previous edition? aside from Lance and Froome that is. besides I'd argue the harder the climb, the lesser the benefits from having any domestiques left. it's those 'easier' ascents where it matters, and I'd rather have QS's wolfpack around.

anyway, when Remco decides to ride it (given what sponsors say, it might be "gently" forced on him), and when we'll know the route, then we can let our predictions and imagination run wild. although eventually, it's the race itself that's gonna write the whole story, on it's own terms, like it always does.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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tymon_tm
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

robbosmans wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:42 pm
LedZeppelin007 wrote:Remco will get crushed by Pog, healthy Rog, and JV at the TdF.


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Roglic wont win a grand tour again
it's getting less and less likely, although he might always have a shot at Vuelta..
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

Orbital wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:53 am
UpFromOne wrote:
maquisard wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:37 am
Please can we drop this topic and return to talking about cycling...
OK...Why did Cav whore himself out with the usual LA suspects?
Maybe LA was kind to him years ago...so that justifies sullying his rep?
I regularly listen to The Move. Its not the first time he’s been on. I think it’s great for the NA audience because it’s presented in a way that you don’t have to be a hardcore cycling enthusiast to follow cycling. I understand a lot of people have strong opinions about LA. I don’t. If Cav’s career is negatively affected by being associated with LA I think that speaks more to how messed up cycling is. I mean, we just had a pages long discussion about assaulting 13y/o girls….
exactly this. singling out LA as the sole villain (or Valverde for that matter, there's at least a page-long name calling when his name's mentioned in a positive context) or looking for some conspiracy behing simple truths (like the fact some pros are just buddies or friends with each other) is unbecoming to anyone, who reads more than headlines. and if one does limit himself to those, WW is probably not a place for him to try and have an adult conversation.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

MichaelK
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:50 pm

by MichaelK

spud wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:27 pm
tymon_tm wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:01 pm
spud wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:53 pm
re team Quickstep, they have always won a lot of races. My impression is that to field a Tour winning squad, you have to invest a lot of money in people who don't win a lot of races ie really good climbers or TT riders but not the very best. When the climbing stages whittle down to 8-10 people, only the very best/deepest teams will have more than guy in it. Will Lefevere be able to handle spending big $ and not getting wins regularly?
GTs aren't won only in the highest mountains. take those windy rolling stages, where you can "easily" put a minute or two on your rivals provided you've got a proper horsepower at your disposal. arguably in most of these situations we've witnessed, it was impossible to make most of it, as big teams focus on climber-domestiques, and riders they have for pulling on flats, are nowhere near the names Remco can count on. IMHO QS can outgun others by a country mile if an opportunity presents itself.

also, remember how Sky used to burn some of the best riders on the planet for their leaders? if Kwiato at his prime could sacrifice himself, so can e.g. Alaphilippe. of course the question remains if it even makes sense for Remco to do the Tour so early. but if they chose to, QS already has more than a decent squad. where they lack in climbing, they make up in sheer strenght and experience, something money can't buy that easily.
I don't think Ineos/Sky EVER got bossed by Quickstep in the cross winds in a tour stage. To the extent it ever happened to Jumbo, it's because Roglic was sleeping in the bunch too far back. When you look at this year's tour, look at the two times Vingegaard took time out of Pogacar - once with Roglic one-timing him, and another when WVA drilled it so hard that Pogacar cracked. Evenpoel is really good, but I don't see him cracking those two guys in a climb. GC Teams need at least 2 really good climbers to support the leader since it's inevitable that one of them will have an off day at some point. Look at UAE, they've got 3 guys that, on their day, can stay with the leader late into a stage. Those guys don't win a ton of races, and I doubt they come cheap.
Wasn't there a stage of the TdF where Cav actually brought Froome across a gap due to crosswinds? Cav ended up winning the stage with Froome putting bags of time into Nairoman.

Also not a GT but Stannard at Omloop Het Nieuwsblad in 2015. Absolutely bossed QS trio of Terpstra, Boonen and Vendenbergh.

Karvalo
Posts: 2828
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

MichaelK wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:59 am
Wasn't there a stage of the TdF where Cav actually brought Froome across a gap due to crosswinds? Cav ended up winning the stage with Froome putting bags of time into Nairoman.
No. Cavendish only rode one season with Sky which was the Wiggins TdF year.

You're probably thinking of this Sagan stage win.

Image

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tymon_tm
Posts: 3296
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

yeah, but my point is - QS never prepared to race Tour for GC.

and what Stannard's win (or anybody else's) over a QS rider proves, except nothing? it's not like they're invincible, but as a collective, IMHO they're just stronger everywhere but the hardest climbs.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2923
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

MichaelK wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:59 am
spud wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:27 pm
tymon_tm wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:01 pm
spud wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:53 pm
re team Quickstep, they have always won a lot of races. My impression is that to field a Tour winning squad, you have to invest a lot of money in people who don't win a lot of races ie really good climbers or TT riders but not the very best. When the climbing stages whittle down to 8-10 people, only the very best/deepest teams will have more than guy in it. Will Lefevere be able to handle spending big $ and not getting wins regularly?
GTs aren't won only in the highest mountains. take those windy rolling stages, where you can "easily" put a minute or two on your rivals provided you've got a proper horsepower at your disposal. arguably in most of these situations we've witnessed, it was impossible to make most of it, as big teams focus on climber-domestiques, and riders they have for pulling on flats, are nowhere near the names Remco can count on. IMHO QS can outgun others by a country mile if an opportunity presents itself.

also, remember how Sky used to burn some of the best riders on the planet for their leaders? if Kwiato at his prime could sacrifice himself, so can e.g. Alaphilippe. of course the question remains if it even makes sense for Remco to do the Tour so early. but if they chose to, QS already has more than a decent squad. where they lack in climbing, they make up in sheer strenght and experience, something money can't buy that easily.
I don't think Ineos/Sky EVER got bossed by Quickstep in the cross winds in a tour stage. To the extent it ever happened to Jumbo, it's because Roglic was sleeping in the bunch too far back. When you look at this year's tour, look at the two times Vingegaard took time out of Pogacar - once with Roglic one-timing him, and another when WVA drilled it so hard that Pogacar cracked. Evenpoel is really good, but I don't see him cracking those two guys in a climb. GC Teams need at least 2 really good climbers to support the leader since it's inevitable that one of them will have an off day at some point. Look at UAE, they've got 3 guys that, on their day, can stay with the leader late into a stage. Those guys don't win a ton of races, and I doubt they come cheap.
Wasn't there a stage of the TdF where Cav actually brought Froome across a gap due to crosswinds? Cav ended up winning the stage with Froome putting bags of time into Nairoman.

Also not a GT but Stannard at Omloop Het Nieuwsblad in 2015. Absolutely bossed QS trio of Terpstra, Boonen and Vendenbergh.
2014 TDF.

Karvalo
Posts: 2828
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:35 pm
2014 TDF.
What about it?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10555
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

tymon_tm wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:35 am

exactly this. singling out LA as the sole villain (or Valverde for that matter, there's at least a page-long name calling when his name's mentioned in a positive context) or looking for some conspiracy behing simple truths (like the fact some pros are just buddies or friends with each other) is unbecoming to anyone, who reads more than headlines. and if one does limit himself to those, WW is probably not a place for him to try and have an adult conversation.

The issue with Lance isn’t so much that he cheated, it’s more the nitty gritty details…he successfully sued several papers and individuals for libel. He’s also shown little to no remorse and said he would likely have cheated again if given a do-over.

The Move used to be one of the best podcasts for post-race breakdowns and pro-level insights, but there are more racing podcasts than ever. Aside from Lance constantly teasing George, it’s no longer that compelling of a listen.

MichaelK
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:50 pm

by MichaelK

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:35 pm
2014 TDF.
2014 Cav abandoned after the crash on Stage 1. May have been 2013, maybe stage 5 perhaps?

by Weenie


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