2021 PRO thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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Smultie
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:30 am

by Smultie

Only 4.6W compared to a still legal position. I'm actually surprised it's that little.

garbageman
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:08 am

by garbageman

Here's a link to the test on from Aerocoach's website: https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/uci-road-b ... rodynamics
It wasn't pictured, but the legal aero hoods position with the levers turned inwards was only 2.6w more power required compared to the pseudo-TT position. This is 1.5w better than the lever hooks position which is essentially the position Alexander Richardson was diqualified from the Tour of Turkey for using, though with only his pinkies on the levers. His position ( https://twitter.com/gcntweet/status/1382288222735204352 ) was probably even slower than the "lever hooks" used in the test.

by Weenie


OnTheRivet
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:41 pm

by OnTheRivet

LeDuke wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:43 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Dan Gerous wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 6:21 pm
First mountain bike race of the season for Tom Pidcock today at the Swiss Bike Cup, he won by over 3 minutes, although without all the biggest XCO stars but 2nd was Titouan Carod so not a nobody by any means.
Crikey. That's savage. XCO seem made for him tbh, he's got fantastic tech skills as well as being an super punchy climber. A lot of courses will probably play into his size and body type more than most CX races.
Geraint Thomas easily wins Romandie's overall as Woods unsurprisingly ends up not even staying on the final podium while Froome continues to regress.
First time since 2018 that Thomas has shown form before a Grand Tour. Great sign for him, but jesus the competition is tough this year. Pog and Rog really seem to have taken things up a notch. Could be a realy cool GC fight. If G can stay upright.
Per a man who knows, he has average technical ability on an XC bike compared to the rest of the WC field. It’s his motor that separates him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh good grief, you again, talking shit about a world class athhlete, hilarious. Don't you have 20 other forums you have to be at to tell people how fast you are?

Yep, Pidcock can't ride a bike, show us your prowess. https://www.instagram.com/p/B8MdS0Ige9o ... _copy_link

TheRich
Posts: 1035
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

OnTheRivet wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:00 am
LeDuke wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:43 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Dan Gerous wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 6:21 pm
First mountain bike race of the season for Tom Pidcock today at the Swiss Bike Cup, he won by over 3 minutes, although without all the biggest XCO stars but 2nd was Titouan Carod so not a nobody by any means.
Crikey. That's savage. XCO seem made for him tbh, he's got fantastic tech skills as well as being an super punchy climber. A lot of courses will probably play into his size and body type more than most CX races.
Geraint Thomas easily wins Romandie's overall as Woods unsurprisingly ends up not even staying on the final podium while Froome continues to regress.
First time since 2018 that Thomas has shown form before a Grand Tour. Great sign for him, but jesus the competition is tough this year. Pog and Rog really seem to have taken things up a notch. Could be a realy cool GC fight. If G can stay upright.
Per a man who knows, he has average technical ability on an XC bike compared to the rest of the WC field. It’s his motor that separates him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh good grief, you again, talking shit about a world class athhlete, hilarious. Don't you have 20 other forums you have to be at to tell people how fast you are?

Yep, Pidcock can't ride a bike, show us your prowess. https://www.instagram.com/p/B8MdS0Ige9o ... _copy_link
Ah yes, the "sick whip."

I would normally stay as far away from Bruce Lee quotes as possible, but the "Showing off is a fool's idea of fame" is amazingly true for mountain biking.

OnTheRivet
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:41 pm

by OnTheRivet

TheRich wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:22 am
OnTheRivet wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:00 am
LeDuke wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:43 pm
Karvalo wrote: Crikey. That's savage. XCO seem made for him tbh, he's got fantastic tech skills as well as being an super punchy climber. A lot of courses will probably play into his size and body type more than most CX races.


First time since 2018 that Thomas has shown form before a Grand Tour. Great sign for him, but jesus the competition is tough this year. Pog and Rog really seem to have taken things up a notch. Could be a realy cool GC fight. If G can stay upright.
Per a man who knows, he has average technical ability on an XC bike compared to the rest of the WC field. It’s his motor that separates him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh good grief, you again, talking shit about a world class athhlete, hilarious. Don't you have 20 other forums you have to be at to tell people how fast you are?

Yep, Pidcock can't ride a bike, show us your prowess. https://www.instagram.com/p/B8MdS0Ige9o ... _copy_link
Ah yes, the "sick whip."


They all do it for social media, doesn't mean they aren't fast.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMXZ0Uwh2Ie ... _copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bgs3mqfnXIJ ... _copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAJhIU0AjiU ... _copy_link
I would normally stay as far away from Bruce Lee quotes as possible, but the "Showing off is a fool's idea of fame" is amazingly true for mountain biking.

OnTheRivet
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:41 pm

by OnTheRivet

OnTheRivet wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:27 am
TheRich wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:22 am
OnTheRivet wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:00 am
LeDuke wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:43 pm


Per a man who knows, he has average technical ability on an XC bike compared to the rest of the WC field. It’s his motor that separates him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh good grief, you again, talking shit about a world class athhlete, hilarious. Don't you have 20 other forums you have to be at to tell people how fast you are?

Yep, Pidcock can't ride a bike, show us your prowess. https://www.instagram.com/p/B8MdS0Ige9o ... _copy_link
Ah yes, the "sick whip."

I would normally stay as far away from Bruce Lee quotes as possible, but the "Showing off is a fool's idea of fame" is amazingly true for mountain biking.
They all do it for social media, doesn't mean they aren't fast.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMXZ0Uwh2Ie ... _copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bgs3mqfnXIJ ... _copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAJhIU0AjiU ... _copy_link

TheRich
Posts: 1035
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

Doesn't mean they are either.

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saldegracia
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:14 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

by saldegracia

TheRich wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:11 am
Doesn't mean they are either.
They don't need to show that on social media...we know that already...
Canyon Aeroad, Votec VRC, Fuji Jari Carbon, Sensa Fermo SL, Principia R700, Cannondale Bad Boy Ultra, Ciöcc Singlespeed

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MiSzA (PL)
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: Poland

by MiSzA (PL)

[/quote]
(...)
Also its only 'illegal' in the sporting world, you can take whatever you like as long as you don't compete.
[/quote]

Not really - most of drugs and stuff that is given in those clinics is also banned throghout the year - not only durig competition.
If you don't compete - true; but you might be a part of a club / federation and still bound by WADA rules regardless of competing.

The split (banned / banned during competition only), doses and compounds are all listed on WADA site.
And not only PEDs but also masking agents - so there is no way one might not know if something is banned or not :)

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/s ... -documents

bruno2000
Posts: 1178
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:11 pm

by bruno2000

sychen wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:15 am
jasjas wrote:
bruno2000 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:58 am
After this rainy Tour of Romandie, it's nearly impossible to understand the Ineos riders could keep standing 'downhill-wise' in a peloton with all disc brake bikes.
(please do not start the debate again pro's and con's).
it really is very easy to understand.
Uci if they wanted to could just mandate disc across the pro peloton.. F160mm/R140mm and be done.

The fact they haven't speaks alot about the power of some team(s) that would be disadvantaged due to their sponsors disc design in the mountain climbs.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Do you mean Sir Brailsford has so much impact on the technical commission of the UCI, he and his team are the only ones holding back a rule saying all pro peloton should be obliged to ride discs? And the only reason Brailsford would be doing this is becaure the Pinarello F12 disc is not light enough?

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Why would the UCI mandate a brake setup? It doesn't matter to them and the bike industry don't need to pressure the UCI to make it mandatory for marketing purposes as they can/could already force their teams to use discs if they wanted.

Before discs were prevalent, some people argued having both discs and rim brakes in the peloton would be dangerous because they would make some people brake faster than others but that was coming from people who had no clue, who had never used disc brakes. We all know it's not true now. Braking's limit comes from the tires, discs just make braking easier, more effortless and feel more consistent, but a good descender will be good on either setup, just like a bad descender will still be bad when switching to discs.

maquisard
Posts: 2578
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:51 pm
We all know it's not true now. Braking's limit comes from the tires, discs just make braking easier, more effortless and feel more consistent, but a good descender will be good on either setup, just like a bad descender will still be bad when switching to discs.
Sorry, that is not true. Anyone who has ever ridden a mountain descent in the wet/rain on any rim brakes will know this. It is even more obvious on carbon rims. With rim brakes the brake pad first has to clear a film of water from the rim before it has effect. This is not true of disc brakes were there is no lag in system due to water needing to be cleared.

In dry rim and disc brakes can co-exist with no issue. In wet there is a true difference.

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

maquisard wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:03 pm
Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:51 pm
We all know it's not true now. Braking's limit comes from the tires, discs just make braking easier, more effortless and feel more consistent, but a good descender will be good on either setup, just like a bad descender will still be bad when switching to discs.
Sorry, that is not true. Anyone who has ever ridden a mountain descent in the wet/rain on any rim brakes will know this. It is even more obvious on carbon rims. With rim brakes the brake pad first has to clear a film of water from the rim before it has effect. This is not true of disc brakes were there is no lag in system due to water needing to be cleared.

In dry rim and disc brakes can co-exist with no issue. In wet there is a true difference.
Maybe on shitty rims or very old ones with glossy non-textured brake tracks. But as a bike tour guide for a couple of seasons in the Pyrénées where I was riding no matter the weather accross multiple cols daily for whole summers, I have ridden many cols in the rain with both discs and rim brakes on carbon rims and the delay was just not noticable on my rim brake setup. Braking power in the wet was very similar to power when dry. Maybe I had the magic calipers/pads/rims combo...

The big advantage in the wet to me is that the levers are so easier to operate with hydraulic discs that they become much easier to control with wet cold hands.

There is a difference and I do prefer discs, I prefer their feel and because they are easier to modulate, they're more fun to descend on but I didn't suddenly descended the Tourmalet or Luz Ardiden much faster with discs, it was just more fun, even more fun I should say. But I think there is not a big enough difference that the brake type makes a big difference in how fast pros descend, it's almost entirely skills that makes someone descend fast or not. Zakarin still gets dropped in downhills by others on rim brakes.

maquisard
Posts: 2578
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

I do not make an argument that the discs will make a better descender, but I think that they will change the rate at which a rider slows when braking. As you say there is variations among brands and texture surfaces on rims have a big effect. I would not like to be an Ineos rider descending on Lightweight wheels in the wet, they do not have a good braking surface.

I live in close to Vercors, Chartreuse, Alps and when in the mountains I find that discs make a big difference in the wet

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Geraint on Lightweights can descend as fast as Michael Woods on discs. Woods got much better at descending since he started to train downhill with a MTB DH coach, but he still is average at best compared to other pros.

But now that I think of it, maybe Geraint crashed near the finish because his hands were not only cold but more tired from the additional force it takes to use rim brake levers compared to hydraulic discs. :mrgreen:

Rim brakes on not so good brake tracks might have a bigger disadvantage in emergency situations, when you unexpectedly need to brake very fast, but a good descender (so one who knows how much to slow down to take corners fast) on a setup he knows will know how to use his brakes, when to start pulling the lever and wont have a big disadvantage taking corners and hairpins going down a wet road compared to a guy on discs. Knowing the road helps too.

We were giving descending clinics with certain groups and most bad descenders are bad because they are scared/nervous, if in their mind discs will be a game changer and will make things safer, the mental opening can make a bigger difference than the actual brakes, it's like a placebo effect. But a great descender with experience and who enjoys going down fast will not suddenly get that much faster with discs.

My point is that people shouldn't be shocked that a pro on rim brakes can keep up with pros on discs.

by Weenie


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