the pros on Lightweight list

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86


kgt wrote:Or nothing.
Even if Wissler disappears, a new owner will come up for sure. LW is not a company that makes no profit. Even if Ineos did not buy their LWs today's stage proved that LW are certainly no worse than any other top wheelset.
And, obviously, some guys in here just don't have the skills to handle a wheelset like the pros do either when going fast uphill or when going with 80km/h downhill.

To all LW haters with love:

Image

8)
So much dribble, keep the entertainment coming, the article clearly outlines the fact that they're so far in the hole that anyone digging them out will be spending a considerable chunk of coin to do so.

As for another round of "assumptions by kgt" not being able to ride deep wheels I'll take the 808 on my tt bike descending at 80oddkm/h in big winds over a LW any day of the week, fast and stable trumps sentimental loin aching Image

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by Weenie


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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Remember these wheels? They were once the hottest thing and the company went kaput with no buyers to take over. It's not inconceivable that Lightweight might end up just like them.

Image

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

kgt : his only focus is on brand name... Time, Look, Derosa, Campag,LW.etc etc. he's a euro boutique kinda snob. It's obvious he's never ridden deep LW's... has to fall back on tour mag test from 2011 for his knowledge.. no thanks.

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:00 am
Remember these wheels? They were once the hottest thing and the company went kaput with no buyers to take over. It's not inconceivable that Lightweight might end up just like them.

Image

I hope LW makes it out.. but they need a big capital investment and need to play catch up with the latest design tech.

TurboTommy
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by TurboTommy

Calnago wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:24 pm
TurboTommy wrote:I often read these lightweight discussions with interest. I generally defer to others greater knowledge around these parts. But my experience with lightweights is quite different to the general consensus here. I have the 24E tub version, and so far they’ve behaved themselves much better than I thought they would. Does anyone else have the 24e version here? Just wondering if the slightly wider rim makes much difference to the way the catch the wind.

For reference the sketchiest set of wheels I ever had was a set of Planet X 50mm tubs that had a very similar profile to lightweights. Man they were scary in the wind. Like a pair of sails, looking to take you off the edge of a road at any moment!
I have to say I don’t have enough experience with the new 24mm version to say one way or another, but I would guess that they are more stable than the prior 20mm versions, especially if you’re you’re using 25mm tires. I’ve done quite a lot of experimenting with the different versions of Boras and with different width tires. They were all tubulars So nominal tire width was consistent regardless of rim width. Here’s my experiential results....
- Old Boras ~20mm with 22mm Veloflex Carbon tubulars: I’m a big guy so that was just not enough volume for me, but at the time that’s what was run so I went with it. High pressures, hard ride, rolled fantastic.
-Old Boras with 23mm Veloflex Carbon tubulars: nicer feel than the 22mm. Little bit more volume was good for my weight.
- Old Boras with 24mm Veloflex Roubaix tubulars: this is my favorite size tubular on the old Boras. Nice and stable. Good road feel. I like them. Straight down a descent its like you’re in a free fall. With the Cult bearings and narrow rims plus narrow tires the immediate speed was noticeable and any negative aero effect did not seem to be coming from the wheels for sure. But a little sketchier then I’d like to feel under my weight.
- Old Boras with 25mm Veloflex Arrenberg/Roubaix. Ok, but starting to feel like the tires are a tad big for the rim. Hence I prefer 24mm tubulars in the old Boras.
-New 2015+ Boras (24mm) with 25mm Arrenbergs/Roubaixs. Kind of the holy grail in wheels that I’ve ridden to date as far as I’m concerned. Great road feel. Good stability. Fantastic hubs/bearings. For all out straight line downhill speed the old Boras with narrow tires are probably the faster of the two but overall confidence is higher on the wider new 24mm Boras.
- New 2015+ Boras with 27mm Veloflex Vlanderens. Very nice tires. High volume. Ran at about 80psi for my weight. Very comfy but on the mushy feeling side. On the decent roads I ride I prefer the 25mm versions of Veloflex tubulars. Removed the Vlanderens and gave them to a friend.

So, what this has to do with Lightweights is that I would expect the newest 24mm wide Lightweights to be better than the old in terms of wheel to road stability, but they still have the wide spokes and tall hub flanges which have to be catching more air than the Boras spokes and essentially no “flanges”. I just have not ridden the newest versions in any conditions that I could verify this one way or another. Just set them up on a bike or two and rode them long enough to ensure that the brakes were adjusted perfectly. On Boras, you need to run the brake pads a little more open than you do with Lightweights but overall I prefer the Boras much more, and again, just don’t have enough time on the newest Lightweights to say for sure, but the overall characteristics of them which I think give them their less than stellar qualities in wind (wide spokes/deep thin hub flanges) are the same. Still, due to their wider width alone, they are probably more stable on the road. I’m basing that on the difference I felt going from old Boras to the new Boras, with both versions being similar in width to the old and new versions of the Lightweights. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to test them more thoroughly anytime soon since the friend with the new wider Lightweights returned them due to an unresolvable Creek and ended up with ENVE 3.4’s. And the lack of user serviceability of Lightweights is a huge negative to me as well.
It’s funny having this conversation now as I just trashed my rear wheel last week and now I’m waiting for the insurance payout, but thinking maybe by the time it comes through they won’t be in business anymore for me to get a set. And would I want to buy a set now if the company isn’t around if I need customer support in the future... so maybe I’ll be on bora’s myself soon too.

I was running them with Veloflex arenbergs myself. Really lovely tubs in my opinion. Im just shy of 6’4 and 77kg if that gives context to the way they may or should perform under those conditions. I take what you say about the flanges and wide spokes etc. It makes sense to me too. But like I say I’ve sort of been waiting the last year, expecting to get spooked at some point, but it just didn’t happen yet. I just came back from the alps which is where I crashed them. But for what it’s worth (long story) that was user error not the wheels. There’s times when I’m descending and and I’m heading towards an exposed area and I’m thinking ‘hear we go’. But it just doesn’t happen. Or the wind will pick up and I’m kind of thinking ‘‘this is it”. But again, the wheels are fine. That’s the third high mountain trip I’ve used those wheels for. Pyrenees once and twice to the alps. And every trip I start off a little tentative. But then as the trip goes on I get more and more confident in the wheels. Descending iseran I hit 50mph which is quick for me. But I never felt like I was on the edge if that makes sense. I always felt in control. I wouldn’t of even guessed I was going that fast but for looking at the computer after the ride. That’s why I’d be interested to hear from others on the 24 wide version. I don’t doubt the experience you guys have had on the narrower version because I’ve had very similar on other wheels. But it seems to me, at least from my small sample. That the 24e behaves itself much better.

There are other things that it also seems well behind the curve on. Like the brake track... but I guess that’s a different conversation.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

spdntrxi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:04 am
I hope LW makes it out.. but they need a big capital investment and need to play catch up with the latest design tech.
I don't think they should change the design. Otherwise they will lose the LW identity and end up with another wheelset that looks and weighs similar to the Bora. What they need to do is drop the production cost significantly so they can sell these wheels at a lower price. Dropping production cost is hard to do as they probably have proprietary manufacturing secrets they don't want to be stolen.

Although I proabably will never buy a set, LW has always been on my dream bike part list. So I don't want to see them go under either.

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:08 am
spdntrxi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:04 am
I hope LW makes it out.. but they need a big capital investment and need to play catch up with the latest design tech.
I don't think they should change the design. Otherwise they will lose the LW identity and end up with another wheelset that looks and weighs similar to the Bora. What they need to do is drop the production cost significantly so they can sell these wheels at a lower price. Dropping production cost is hard to do as they probably have proprietary manufacturing secrets they don't want to be stolen.

Although I proabably will never buy a set, LW has always been on my dream bike part list. So I don't want to see them go under either.
yeah but just look at the comments in this thread about how many people would not ride them if a leaf blows.... outside of hill climb competitors and bike shows who's gonna buy them. As you said mfg cost needs to go down and it will be a big ask. I'd consider them again if they updated them to handle crosswinds better and cost went down, afterall it's not chumpchange and I would need to use them.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

To my knowledge their trademark carbon spokes need to be mated to a flat surface at the rim, hence they use a 'V' shaped rim. If they started using steel spokes they can change the rim shape. But then it's just another Bora and no one will pay a huge premium on a product that has no advantages other than a bling name.

In the summertime we have no wind here. So I can certain use them here but I just checked the price and it's $3,717 with the 2.5% WW discount from Starbike. That's $1,500 more than what I paid for my Bora Ultra. If they can be bought for the same price as the Bora Ultra then I might bite just to enjoy the nice (stiff) feeling on climbs.

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TonyM
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by TonyM

Lightweight reminds me of Spinergy in the 80/90s.

This time however I will not sell my LW!

ichobi
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by ichobi

From Cyclingtips secret pro. ImageImage

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guyc
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by guyc

kgt wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:12 pm

Even if Wissler disappears, a new owner will come up for sure. LW is not a company that makes no profit.
The hard numbers suggest otherwise.

That's what happens when you try and make your niche product a Veblen good, but the market eats you.

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kgt
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by kgt

Konsi wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:39 pm
kgt wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:12 pm
Or nothing.
Even if Wissler disappears, a new owner will come up for sure. LW is not a company that makes no profit.
I don’t know if you read German. I do. In the German article that was linked here, it is clearly explained that the losses and unrecoverable research/development costs of the Lightweight branch of Wissler Group (CarbonSports) were the main reason for the insolvency.
Where does it say that? As far as I can understand it says that CarbonSports as a company and LW as a product is doing well in the market and there is a positive perspective (the e-bikes trend helps) but in order to keep the company grow more investments are needed (money that Wissler does not have obviously). So it is not that LW is doing bad, only that Wissler cannot afford it.

Anyway, INEOS (throught the secret pro) explained everything, so again... haters (or marketing victims?) gonna hate and top pros can enjoy their LWs and their incredible stiffness/weight ; )

ichobi
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by ichobi

The F12 must be quite heavy. Thomas is not on the Xlight version (guess it isn't that stiff) , and his bike has no paint. (remove 100g+). And still need to be on LW to get to that weight. Ok the LW deal might be business and money talk but it doesn't bode well for the bike. Again, Pinarello isn't known for their lightness anyhow.

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mendiz
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by mendiz

Every thread full of Calnago posts and TobinHatesyou. Please, when both talk about something, I would like it was real experience and many kms of road riding that component. Not, "I tried wheelset of a friend". At least 4000-5000 kms to give a valuable opinion.
Calnago, you did not owned Time RXS and gave bad review, my experience of about 100000 kms is different for example.
You don´t stop riding when you get old, you get old when you stop riding.

by Weenie


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Konsi
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by Konsi

kgt wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:43 am
Konsi wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:39 pm
kgt wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:12 pm
Or nothing.
Even if Wissler disappears, a new owner will come up for sure. LW is not a company that makes no profit.
I don’t know if you read German. I do. In the German article that was linked here, it is clearly explained that the losses and unrecoverable research/development costs of the Lightweight branch of Wissler Group (CarbonSports) were the main reason for the insolvency.
Where does it say that? As far as I can understand it says that CarbonSports as a company and LW as a product is doing well in the market and there is a positive perspective (the e-bikes trend helps) but in order to keep the company grow more investments are needed (money that Wissler does not have obviously). So it is not that LW is doing bad, only that Wissler cannot afford it.

Anyway, INEOS (throught the secret pro) explained everything, so again... haters (or marketing victims?) gonna hate and top pros can enjoy their LWs and their incredible stiffness/weight ; )
No, it says pretty much the opposite. Tge market for carbon parts/bicycles is shrinking, the e-bikes don’t help, and after putting money from their other products for years into Lightweight, they couldn’t afford to continue with it.

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